Fullauto head fitment

Ok so my last thread got burned by...well let's leave it at that shall we.
I still seek the advice of those who know.
Is the 3thou flame ring offered by JS a suitable and wise street option or is the 21thou copper gasket a wiser choice. I am running stock cam with standard comp gasket at the moment.
My rh4 head wich was fully reconditioned 3000 miles ago has now chewed our exhaust ports. My beautiful wife bought me a fullauto for my 40th so I thought I would take this opportunity to raise compression a bit.
By my best guess, running 20thou stock hepolites, if I go with the 21thou gasket I will get near on 8.5:1 but with the flame ring probably round 9:1.
So again the question is, will the 3thou flame ring be a suitable option for everyday rider with regard reliability and street ability?
Please no off tangent, I'm gonna but 11 fullauto heads rubbish. Just facts or opinions of the wise.
Cheers
DKT

I don't know but if you elect to use a gasket coat I see 'Supercheap have Permatex which I am going to use on a (non Commando) copper head gasket.

http://www.supercheapauto.com.au/online ... 9935#Cross

Edit.
See Madass140's post down the page.

why don't you call or PM/Jim S. and get the answer straight from him rather than the soon to weigh in keyboard experts (and once again have the two primary d'bags heist your thread)

Phone/Fax: 559 875 0659
Email: jim@jsmotorsport.com

Dkt26 said:

Ok so my last thread got burned by...well let's leave it at that shall we.
I still seek the advice of those who know.
Is the 3thou flame ring offered by JS a suitable and wise street option or is the 21thou copper gasket a wiser choice. I am running stock cam with standard comp gasket at the moment.
My rh4 head wich was fully reconditioned 3000 miles ago has now chewed our exhaust ports. My beautiful wife bought me a fullauto for my 40th so I thought I would take this opportunity to raise compression a bit.
By my best guess, running 20thou stock hepolites, if I go with the 21thou gasket I will get near on 8.5:1 but with the flame ring probably round 9:1.
So again the question is, will the 3thou flame ring be a suitable option for everyday rider with regard reliability and street ability?
Please no off tangent, I'm gonna but 11 fullauto heads rubbish. Just facts or opinions of the wise.
Cheers
DKT

Click to expand...

just to answer Timewarp, not sure about using Permatex, Hylomar in the spray can is in my opinion and many others over the years the best for copper head gaskets.

Regardless of the answers- what a great wife!

madass140 said:

just to answer Timewarp, not sure about using Permatex, Hylomar in the spray can is in my opinion and many others over the years the best for copper head gaskets.

Click to expand...

Thanks for that reply.
I hadn't brought anything yet luckily, I will try and track down the Hylomar.

I always use the Permatex copper coat and any and all gaskets, copper head gaskets, cylinder base, timing cover, gearbox gaskets etc. And hylomar on thing without gaskets, crankcase.
I have never seen or heard of the Hylomar high temp spray before. From what I have read, they are quite comparable. I guess the question is availability.

I did some googling, oddly some of Permatex products are Hylomar formula's.
I found this within Australia.
http://www.autobarn.com.au/hylomar-300g-aerosol-hyl300

The high performance forums (Drag racing/Nascar) in the USA mentioned this version in the link below more than not and there was plenty of Permatex verses Hylomar (civil) discussion.
This is a uprated version of the Blue it seems.

http://www.buyracingparts.com/hylomar-b ... spray.html

One forum suggested Yama Bond (ThreeBond) was one step better but will try and find the aerosol Hylomar, it seems it can be used on composite head gaskets also.
Some race applications they were removing the rivets, pulling the head gasket apart, cleaning and spraying each layer then reassembling.

Time Warp said:

One forum suggested Yama Bond (ThreeBond) was one step better ...[than holymer]

Click to expand...

Yamabond is not good enough for Norton head gaskets, neither is "the right stuff" (which is probably the best sealer under compression). I haven't found any sealer adequate to work on a head. If copper spray works its only because there are copper metal particles in the spray. But the spray won't necessarily flatten out perfect and you could still have high spots (thus leaving low spots).

The weird thing about copper head gaskets is that you may not have a detectable air leak (compression) but oil will still seep out and piss you off. The best sealer I have found for a head gasket is plain old contact cement (something I learned from Ron Wood). But no sealer alone will do the job. I have pulled head after head trying one sealer after another. The only thing I have found to work is adding .005" thick copper wire around the pushrod tunnels and oil return. It has never failed and it is the only thing I've found that has that has never failed - and I always use it along with the contact cement to hold the wire in place.

As far as C.R. for the street. I suggest the .020" copper head gasket with .005" copper wire around the pushrod tunnels and oil return. The wire smashes and fills in low spots. You don't want to go too far and suffer "pinging". In hot Calif temp a 750 Commando can ping when letting out the clutch with a .020" milled head. At night or in the winter its not a problem. But if your gas octane is high enough and your can't stop yourself - then go for the .003" copper ring and wire. Sometimes you just have to let your balls hang out and make your own experiments.

Sometimes you just have to let your balls hang out and make your own experiments.

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LOL Jim but dang it sure makes the risky world go round more fun to remember.
At your wise suggestion Jim, I got spools of copper at big art-craft Hobby Lobby in 20, 24 & 26 ga for various areas but ain't mic'd em to know the inch" dia yet. I've though of using ancient Peru tech of counter notching faces then pouring in molten metal to set up and contract. I'll try Hylomar once more + wire but nearby leather shop has great contact cement. There are alloys that melt at range of temps above full operating but well below Aluminum distortion risk, similar to temps I've had Peels stuff at to vaporize/flash off oil in deep pores and microscopic grain fractures before TIG repaired and re-enforced. Just thinking out the box to help hang mine like dog's tongue out a window.

Btw I've Bore Tech'd my Kohler 18 hp boxer w .020" over pistons and found racers say room enough to leave gasket out on the flat head side valve to bump CR to upper 6's, so first use of wire sealing will be chest high pasture grass straining WOT pulling stoppies standing up backing up slopes with tail wheel catching air cresting to level. May give better conduction cooling too.

this is exactly the setup i have in my 850 and i am happy with it - some pinging if i lug it on a grade but otherwise it works fine (i got one of jim head gaskets and used the copper wire)

i would also suggest that the difference between 8.5 and 9 Cr for the in your seat of the pants dyno would be minimal, with the 8.5 being slightly more forgiving on the octane of gas used

jseng1 said:

Time Warp said:

One forum suggested Yama Bond (ThreeBond) was one step better ...[than holymer]

Click to expand...

....... I suggest the .020" copper head gasket with .005" copper wire around the pushrod tunnels and oil return.........

Click to expand...

mikegray660 said:

this is exactly the setup i have in my 850 and i am happy with it - some pinging if i lug it on a grade but otherwise it works fine (i got one of jim head gaskets and used the copper wire)

i would also suggest that the difference between 8.5 and 9 Cr for the in your seat of the pants dyno would be minimal, with the 8.5 being slightly more forgiving on the octane of gas used

jseng1 said:

Time Warp said:

One forum suggested Yama Bond (ThreeBond) was one step better ...[than holymer]

Click to expand...

....... I suggest the .020" copper head gasket with .005" copper wire around the pushrod tunnels and oil return.........

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

Mike is that the 21thou or 3thou flame ring you have?

.021" copper head gasket in my 850

i went with the .032 in my 750 but it has 10:1 piston and 2s cam (i think the .042 would of been better but still dick'n with timing on it before i decide to make the change)