Full synthetic oil or....

Monjebricks · Oct 16, 2012

Ok, the time has come to change the oil on my 1971 norton commando. Is it a good idea to switch over to full synthetic 20w-50 oil? I have heard that this would reduce the amount of smoke among other things. Let me know what y'all think. Thanks

-angel

ILLF8ED · Oct 16, 2012

Here you go from my club's website to you. Alan Goldwater did some research on this subject several years ago. Synthetic wins.
http://www.nortonclub.com/docs/OilTemp.pdf

Torontonian · Oct 16, 2012

Oh boy yet another oily thread. The short answer from this humanoid is do you live in a desert or race ? Me neither. Plus it leaks out quicker.

1up3down · Oct 16, 2012

Plus it leaks out quicker.

if the same weight as non synthetic, why would it leak out faster, chemically speaking?

Nortiboy · Oct 16, 2012

Monjebricks said:
I have heard that this would reduce the amount of smoke among other things.

Yes, most synthetic oil produces less visible smoke.

Oil will not fix mechanical issues. If your making smoke, you should sort it out.

If you want to try synthetic, I have found Mobil 1 V Twin works well.

Cheers

Torontonian · Oct 16, 2012

The molecules are smaller than conventional Dino oils. Seal swell additives are used to compensate. High mileage formulas are recommended because of this.

staticmoves · Oct 17, 2012

I use AMSOIL 20w-50 for flat tappet machines with the higher ZINC content and I don't have any engine oil leaks.
used it from fresh rebuild and the rings seated fine and no smoke.
Though its not the cheapist oil change in town

Powereng03 · Oct 18, 2012

staticmoves said:
I use AMSOIL 20w-50 for flat tappet machines with the higher ZINC content and I don't have any engine oil leaks.
used it from fresh rebuild and the rings seated fine and no smoke.
Though its not the cheapist oil change in town

Can you post a link?

Nortiboy · Oct 18, 2012

staticmoves said:
I use AMSOIL 20w-50 for flat tappet machines with the higher ZINC content

Mobil 1 V-Twin 20W-50 Phosphorous 1600 Zinc 1700 ppm

AMSOIL 20W-50 Phosphorous 1160 Zinc 1336 ppm

CanukNortonNut · Oct 18, 2012

Powereng03 said:
staticmoves said:

I use AMSOIL 20w-50 for flat tappet machines with the higher ZINC content and I don't have any engine oil leaks.
used it from fresh rebuild and the rings seated fine and no smoke.
Though its not the cheapist oil change in town

Click to expand...

Can you post a link?

Powereng
You can get this at Crappy tire. Goes on sale a couple of times a year.
Cheers
CNN

pete.v · Oct 18, 2012

There may or may not be better oils than the Amsoil MCV, but I like it. These zinks and what not are great but really don't come it to play until the oil breaks down or looses its properties due to heat. It's good to know it's there in case of a long down wind run or heavy hot traffic.

I sure do not mind spending more for what I believe to be the best for me and my machine. I feel some responsibility to preserve history, so to speak.

That being said, I will use Lucas 80/90 conventional in the gearbox cause that works best for me.

staticmoves · Oct 19, 2012

Powereng03 said:
staticmoves said:

I use AMSOIL 20w-50 for flat tappet machines with the higher ZINC content and I don't have any engine oil leaks.
used it from fresh rebuild and the rings seated fine and no smoke.
Though its not the cheapist oil change in town

Click to expand...

Can you post a link?

I get mine from ROYAL DISTRIBUTING, there are many great oils, just make sure it is designed for FLAT TAPPETS.
Remeber these machines were built to run on the crap oil of the 70's designed in the 60's, so I don't know if I would be to concerned on splitting hairs with concern to ppm counts on oil purity contents with respect to the oils of today in this case.

RennieK · Oct 20, 2012

Don't you mean SOLID LIFTERS? My understanding was the zinc content aids lubrication of high wear surfaces like solid lifter/cam, (radiused or flat) especially during start up when the oil isn't yet flowing to capacity and clearances aren't at operating temperatures yet. Hydraulic lifters offer some forgiveness during this stage and throughout the normal running of an engine and therefore zinc content has been reduced in modern oils.

Nortiboy · Oct 21, 2012

RennieK said:
zinc content has been reduced in modern oils.

My understanding is metals are being removed/reduced from modern oils so catalytic convertors are not damaged.

comnoz · Oct 21, 2012

RennieK said:
Don't you mean SOLID LIFTERS? My understanding was the zinc content aids lubrication of high wear surfaces like solid lifter/cam, (radiused or flat) especially during start up when the oil isn't yet flowing to capacity and clearances aren't at operating temperatures yet. Hydraulic lifters offer some forgiveness during this stage and throughout the normal running of an engine and therefore zinc content has been reduced in modern oils.

Most modern engines use roller lifters and don't require zinc/phosphate EP additive.
Non-roller lifters either radius or flat- regardless of whether they are solid or hydraulic still require additives to help reduce the friction from sliding contact. Jim

Hobot · Oct 21, 2012

Yo'al do understand that the ZAPP layer is very thin and only laid down on fully heated surfaces and is whipped off on each start up so must be reformed before shut down or base metal gets a whip off each start up before oil pressure hits to separate. ZAPP does not protect in constant running but for very short moments if there is loss of oil pressure. The call the ZAPP layer nano zinc-phosphorus pads, look like little blunt wart clusters.

staticmoves · Apr 11, 2014

CanukNortonNut said:
Powereng03 said:

staticmoves said:

I use AMSOIL 20w-50 for flat tappet machines with the higher ZINC content and I don't have any engine oil leaks.
used it from fresh rebuild and the rings seated fine and no smoke.
Though its not the cheapist oil change in town

Click to expand...

Can you post a link?

Click to expand...

Powereng
You can get this at Crappy tire. Goes on sale a couple of times a year.
Cheers
CNN

The one I use is not the V-Twin version. I use this one, not always available.
here are two links to the DATA.
http://www.amsoil.com/shop/by-product/m ... 2faro.aspx
http://www.amsoil.com/lit/databulletins/g2212.pdf

DogT · Apr 11, 2014

I got some v-twin the other day. 4 for $38. I though I'd gotten a senior discount, but she said it was because I was so handsome. Autozone, ugh.

Matchless · Apr 12, 2014

If oils for use in modern engines don't contain zinc, how do modern twin cam. motors with bucket & shim type valve actuation manage? There is sliding contact there surely?
Martyn.

Madnorton · Apr 12, 2014

I suppose some just don't get it, Mobil 1 here in the UK = V expensive, Tesco own brand full synthetic = Cheap (even compared to monograde dinosaur oil) it even exceeded the spec of Mobil 1 for a while as the Mobil stuff was having trouble adhereing to the latest EU spec. In my MK3 with magnetic sump plug, the results are encouragingly not visible, so I will use it before anything else. If you ride all year round then use a full synthetic oil, you'll notice one hell of a difference.

Full synthetic oil or....

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