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Front wheel internals hub diagram

Discussion in 'Norton P11 Motorcycles' started by pierodn, Jan 12, 2018.

  1. pierodn

    pierodn

    Joined:
    Nov 10, 2012
    Please.
    Do you have to post here or send me to dinuccip@tin.it a diagram of the front wheel internals hub?
    Thank you
    Piero
     
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  2. CanukNortonNut

    CanukNortonNut

    Joined:
    Aug 8, 2005
    1957-1964 Workshop instruction manual show the front bearing assembly for the ribbed type hub Page 65. The skimmed hub is different. PM Sent.
    Cheers,
    Thomas
     
  3. pierodn

    pierodn

    Joined:
    Nov 10, 2012
    Please,
    I need the dyagram of the front skimmed hub.
    Thank you.
    Piero
     
  4. Ron L

    Ron L VIP MEMBER

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2004
    Thomas, are you certain the P11, P11A hubs are different from the Ranger 750? I have not yet disassembled the front hub of my Ranger, but externally it appears to be the same as my early P11. Same brake, same width, appears to be the same axle spindle.
     
  5. CanukNortonNut

    CanukNortonNut

    Joined:
    Aug 8, 2005
    Ron,
    You are asking the 20,000 dollar question....
    Very little information is out there for the P11 Norton on Assembly drawings. Matchless components are where you must find the differences.
    I think there are two axle types out there for the front wheel hub.
    http://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/NjAwWDgwMA==/$(KGrHqZHJE!E88YlJ,!vBPVoLOqWO!~~60_35.JPG this is one for the skimmed type. I purchased from Walridge because it was missing when I bought the skimmed hubs.
    http://thumbs.ebaystatic.com/d/l800/pict/262296508009_1.jpg
    This is what looks to be the same that I pulled out of my Ribbed front wheel.
    I will add a picture later as my camera battery is dead.
    Note: I bought my bike as a basket case and I can't swear what I have is correct. My Ranger is about 60 units from the end of production so with it I got the ribbed wheel assemblies. I purchased later the skimmed hubs because I liked them better. (definitely not correct for the year but I do not care. I got the high pipes and single seat too).;)
    There are differences mostly on the front wheel assembly and not (to my knowledge) the rear hub. I think the brake cover is also different for the front wheel assembly between skimmed and ribbed. This past week I just had an email conversation with Mike Partridge with side cover bolts and even he is scratching his head on what goes where between the P11, P11A and Ranger.
    Keep on keeping on.
    Cheers,
    Thomas
     
  6. Ron L

    Ron L VIP MEMBER

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2004
    You might be confusing the earlier Matchless wheel which uses the tapered roller bearings and an different spindle with the "interim" wheel which all P11's used. Remember that Matchless used Norton forks and wheels for the other hybrids (G15, N15) so that may cause confusion also.
     
  7. CanukNortonNut

    CanukNortonNut

    Joined:
    Aug 8, 2005
    You may very well be right Ron. I purchased the wheels afterwards. Here is what the internals look like. Not much to salvage.

    [​IMG]
    maybe you can make heads or tails of it.
    I got this shiny axle for the skimmed wheel from Walridge.

    [​IMG]

    quite different. Like I said we don't have a lot of info out there, but I keep learning.o_O
    Cheers,
    Thomas
     
    Last edited: Jan 30, 2018
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  8. Ron L

    Ron L VIP MEMBER

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2004
    Thomas, your spindle from the ribbed hub appears to be the earlier, non "interim", hub that used tapered roller bearings. Does your hub have 5 ribs? As I recall the earlier hub had more ribs and is a little wider.
     
  9. CanukNortonNut

    CanukNortonNut

    Joined:
    Aug 8, 2005
    Ron
    There are 7 ribs.
    Edit:
    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    Brake plate:
    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
    I know its hurtin but it is salvageable.;) So is this the earlier hub?
    Cheers,
    Thomas
     
    Last edited: Jan 30, 2018
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  10. Ron L

    Ron L VIP MEMBER

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2004
    Yep, definitely not a Ranger 750 hub. Brake backplate is also different. This is a pre-'63 Matchless hub. I know, I bought that same style hub at a swap meet, only to find it was not a Ranger hub when I got it home and compared it to the one on my Ranger.
     
  11. CanukNortonNut

    CanukNortonNut

    Joined:
    Aug 8, 2005
    I just measured the two wheels for comparison between the ribbed and the skimmed hubs.
    The skimmed hub measures 3.110" without the brake plate.
    The ribbed hub measures 3.399" .

    Well I learned something new today. I didn't pay a whole lot for this but It does change my game plan. :(
    Was there any difference with the rear hub? (between the ribbed and skimmed)?
    Regards,
    Thomas
     
    Last edited: Jan 30, 2018
  12. Ron L

    Ron L VIP MEMBER

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2004
    There is no difference between the skimmed P11, P11A hub and the ribbed Ranger 750 hub, front or rear, if that is what you are asking. There are other AMC ribbed rear hubs for the CS and CSR models (pre-64, Norton hubs used from '64 on) and the lightweights. I'm not a Matchless guru, so I don't know how they differ. The key here is P11' s used Matchless "interim" hubs which were only used on AMC (non-P11) bikes in 1963, the switch to Norton hubs for the Matchless/AJS machines being 1964.
     
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  13. CanukNortonNut

    CanukNortonNut

    Joined:
    Aug 8, 2005
    So Ron,
    the =M=_Workshop_Instruction_Manual_all_models,1957-1964_.pdf
    On page 104 fig 113/114: is this the interim hub? The front looks like a 5 rib unit?
    "without tapered bearings".
    I hate incomplete basket case bikes. :mad:
    Cheers,
    Thomas
     
  14. Ron L

    Ron L VIP MEMBER

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2004
    Yes, the top picture in figure 114 is the interim hub with fins as supplied on Ranger 750's. The same hub with the fins skimmed away is used on the P11/P11A's. The bottom picture may be the same hub internals as P11, but is too fuzzy to be certain. Figure 113 is on page 102 and is of a crankcase.
     
  15. mdt-son

    mdt-son

    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2012
    Well, this is not correct. The AMC works chose to use the interim front hub and the strong rear hub for 3 reasons - they were race proven, they fitted the forks (front), and they were available. Yes, AMC continued producing the G80CS up to the summer of 1967 and theefore had stocks of the hubs immediately available. G80CS and the P11 series shared forks and wheels with the exceptions that the G80CS used 19" wheels whereis on the P11, 18" rims were fitted at the rear, furthermore on the P11 a brake anchor was fitted at the rear which necessitated a slight modification to the brake plate and its chrome cover.

    It was a simle but effective cost-cutting exercise - why make something new when you can adopt an existing part? The same thinking was applied even more radically on the G85CS motocross bike.

    -Knut
     
  16. Ron L

    Ron L VIP MEMBER

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2004
    Thanks, Knut, for the correction. Perhaps I should have stated that Matchless twins '64 on used Norton hubs. My real point is that the skimmed P11 hub and the ribbed Ranger 750 hubs are identical and are "interim" hubs. However, not all ribbed Matchless hubs are "interim" hubs. Is this a true statement?
     
  17. pierodn

    pierodn

    Joined:
    Nov 10, 2012
    Hi.
    I have two pair of front skimmed interim hubs and one interim ribbed.
    In the last year i have seen for sale a lot of interim skimmed hubs but never one five ribbed.
    Why it is so rare?
    About the rear hub i have seen some different sprockets and fitment and also a quick detach with rubbers.
    Thanks
    Piero
     
    Last edited: Feb 9, 2018
  18. Ron L

    Ron L VIP MEMBER

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2004
    Piero,
    According to Anthony Curzon (and others), the 5 rib "interim" hub was only used in the AMC twins range in 1963 (and the G80CS to '67 as Knut pointed out) and the final "Ranger 750" version P11. That may attribute to the scarcity of the 5 rib "interim" hub. The earlier AMC (non-"interim") heavyweight hub is wider and has more fins. There were Matchless and AJS models built for many years, so the early AMC hubs would be likely more plentiful, particularly in Europe.

    Again, I am not an AMC expert, so if this information is incorrect, I invite comments from those who are.
     
  19. pierodn

    pierodn

    Joined:
    Nov 10, 2012
    Hi Ron,
    I think you are right.
    I love more the ribbed than the skimmed hubs also mounted on the P11 non Ranger types.
    Please, can go on the comments about the rear hub, particulary on the sprocket mounting types?
    Thanks
    Piero
     
    Last edited: Feb 9, 2018
  20. Ron L

    Ron L VIP MEMBER

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2004
    P11, P11A, and Ranger 750 all use the rear wheel design with the sprocket integral to the brake drum (like Norton). As I understand it, the detachable sprocket hubs are found on the earlier "lightweight" singles.
     

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