From excitement to frustration in 2 short months - UPDATED

I bought myself a wonderful, running, fully functional 72 Commando with the help of Mark Schmitz (on this forum).
Made sense to do a couple upgrades. Nothing major, just stuff that would make it more reliable.

Ordered and installed Power Arc ignition form Old Britts. Many problems, including the points module being too large (by 1/8 inch) to fit in the hole.
Took a file to it and after four hours of careful trimming it fit.
Resolved other problems as the appeared, including non-factory sized cam bolt, etc.
Set to specs and it started after about 12 kicks. No big improvement.
Must be the old worn Amal carbs.

Ordered and installed PWK flat-sides from Jim. Many problems, including a float that was stuck and spewing fuel out the overflow port.
Resolved the problem over the phone with Jim.
Set them to his initial specs, checked throttle cables for slack etc.
Installed carbs for fourth time (losing count).

Finally tried to fire it up today.
Now all I can get out of it is silence, or backfires.
Jim says it is the ignition.
Fred says it might be poor ground. BUT it worked before the carb change.

At the end of my patience and knowledge.

:cry: :?:

=============

UPDATE on 3/6

1up3down (John Schmidt) and his buddy Keith came over yesterday and got the old girl fired up! And what a helpful, knowledgeable and fun crew they are.
I do not think I would have made as much headway with this in weeks as they did in a few hours.

John has had the PKW flatsides on his 850 for 4 years and knows them well. They are difficult to get set up, but after you get them dialed in they work very well for him.
"It's all in the wrist". Well, not ALL but a lot. Unlike the Amal carbs, these require some throttle (along with choke) to get fuel into the cylinders when cranking. I never needed to do that before, and in fact was told NOT to turn the throttle when cranking by the previous owner. This was my primary problem with it not firing - fuel starvation!
John spent a considerable time fiddling with the idle and mixture adjusters. He believes I need a richer idle jet, so I will change it out next. I did order a set from Jim so have them on hand.

Other relevant findings:
The new Power Arc ignition was spot on. Checked the timing with a light and it was at 28 degrees at 3000 RPM.
Valves needed adjusting (done!)
My tires are not worn out, but are old (10 years) and need to be replaced ASAP.
Will follow-up with a ride over to John's place to dial in the carbs after I install the bigger jet.

THANK YOU John for all the help & information.

Re: From excitement to frustration in 2 short months

Ain't old bikes fun !!?

Put the old Amals back on, and prove that the ignition still works. ?
Checked for a flat battery - by charging it up to fully charged.

"It is a scientific fact that 99% of carburettor problems are electrical, and vice versa"

Re: From excitement to frustration in 2 short months

battery fully charged - on battery tender.
plugs are sparking.
putting the amals back on is... not an option for me at this point.

one further piece of info i did not include....

on first install of new carbs after the float fix, motor IMMEDIATELY went 3K RPM on FIRST KICK.
Turns our the throttle cable sheath got hung up at the 2/1 junction and thus at more than idle setting.
??????

Rohan said:

Ain't old bikes fun !!?

Put the old Amals back on, and prove that the ignition still works. ?

Checked for a flat battery - by charging it up to fully charged.

Click to expand...

Re: From excitement to frustration in 2 short months

Wind on a (little) bit of throttle when you kick it then. ?
Maybe its not yet set very close to a good idle setup, so won't start...

No chance you have changed plug wires or coil wires over, by any chance ?

Re: From excitement to frustration in 2 short months

Rohan said:

Wind on a (little) bit of throttle when you kick it then. ?
Maybe its not yet set very close to a good idle setup, so won't start...

No chance you have changed plug wires or coil wires over, by any chance ?

Click to expand...

Throttle setting too slow will cause backfire? JIm never mentioned that....

New plugs and wires come with the Old Britts / Power Arc kit to match their specs.
Plug gap set at .23

Re: From excitement to frustration in 2 short months

Thanks goodness its just a hobby horse to fret over eh. Welcome to the emotionally rational leaps into insane mood swings of Commando-om. I call the initial realization sinking in my "British Iron Blank Staring State", like when you first placed the PA ignition plate, ugh now got to check my uninstalled PA. Thanks for the alert so I don't take it as 'why me again' as much. I can't add much to above except you should always try new plugs after nothing else works, which at least lowers the chance they fouled up or came bad out the box as I've had more than once after a tune up of a number of things so did the rituals many times till giving up to dig old plugs out of trash to fire fine right off, ugh. You need a V8 of em. Hey at least can cry among those who give a shit as most our families prolly don't. Ya might of got in over your head too, as I have a lot w/o the www hand holding. Your mind will be sharper and life stresses less once you've gotten though what it take to claim ridding a fully fettered Commando. Oh yeah in my case I found bringing the borg mind meld attention to one of my issues seemed to work like magic on next attempt, often, as in more than two hand fulls of times, w/o really doing anything different than prior, totally mystifying to this day to me.

So You think you got it bad, :cry: well let me tell ya a hobot Ms Peel tale that tested six of ages long famous Nortooneers...
the year 2004, 1000 miles away at INOA Ohio Rally, First am there I got Greg Fauth's upgrade boyah trigger wire kit, put in, timed it to fire off a few mostly backfiring times then nothing. Oh yeah Peel had fallen over in parking lot d/t a short stop as car whized into lot, so luggage swayed like crazy so I hopped on on the low side and stuck out my L leg to break her fall and saved cycle damage but did break foot bone on peg pinch, so it hurt to squat and to hobble. Spent all day doing my well learned timing creep up and down till sweet spot hit but only back fire teasers beating my ass down in summer heat all day long. Hobbled to meal then back at it or no going home eh. Dark hit and hot shots gave a try with time light and checking voltage etc. We'd set time and kick off for Horrendous back fire runs that instantly turned pipes cherry red to the mufflers then silence and some smoke whiffs... Hours of this, every time we set time right on via meters and time lights, it'd show timing spiking advance, till near mid night I grabbed a mason jar of 'shine and passed around 6 + me, 4x's, moods lighted, bodies lifted and senses sharpened, we found intermittent ground wire, but still crazy noises, we found bad intermittent fuse, but still nasty behavior, we found a bad intermittent coil, but still obnoxious teaser ruining with pipes about transparent red before died. About then couple hundred voices and horns rang out SHUT IT OFF, ditto'd a while. then Rod Raybourn noticed a jitter in the points plate, to discover I'd double nutted the terminals on the wrong side so magnets clipping them, ugh, but still no go but on one lung till a plug now found bad so a non R plug sourced out a tool box for success!!! Roars of Peel's open 2-1 header shouting in joy over cheers of relief of the campers and me. Funny side not was Peel had Bulbsthatlastforever LED signals installs and the non R plug made them syncopated rpm timing lights. I slept like a puppy as non drunk babies are up and down all night long.

Re: From excitement to frustration in 2 short months

If the idle settings are not yet correct, it might.
But we did ask if the plug wires had been reversed somehow, which can also do that.

So have you tried kicking it with a bit of throttle dialled up ?

Re: From excitement to frustration in 2 short months

thanks for the tales of woe / days of inspiration from hobot and the suggestions from rohan.
i have not got any spare plugs to the Old Britts spec but can grab a couple at Pep Boyz.
Have not tried idle setting changes ot more throttle when kickin it because i am too tuckered out to stomp on it anymo' today.

best news is that a very long-time contributor here and local guru (John / 1up3down) is coming over to help me troubleshoot on Wednesday.
thank the lord for helpful and knowledgeable Nortoneers!


t

Re: From excitement to frustration in 2 short months

Yeah man should be a book for called worst of times best of times. Truly I need tales of woes and success to help me face my own stuff, I'm just a pilot that can't afford a mechanic.

Re: From excitement to frustration in 2 short months

Hang in there, It will be well worth it.

Re: From excitement to frustration in 2 short months

Fear NOT, Tomas!

For I shall be in your garage Wednesday mid morning, and we shall in short order get her fired up!

Tomas lives not far from me here in Albuquerque and we have talked a little by phone.

I have had my flat slides for about four years now and I know those puppies pretty well.

To the rescue!
John

Re: From excitement to frustration in 2 short months

tomspro said:

best news is that a very long-time contributor here and local guru (John / 1up3down) is coming over to help me troubleshoot on Wednesday.thank the lord for helpful and knowledgeable Nortoneers!

Click to expand...

Yea these guys are always here to help us, Nice to have John close by and ready to assist. Good on you John.

Re: From excitement to frustration in 2 short months

Hobot, what line of work are you in? Your posts are like no other! :idea:

Re: From excitement to frustration in 2 short months

tomspro said:

I bought myself a wonderful, running, fully functional 72 Commando with the help of Mark Schmitz (on this forum).
Made sense to do a couple upgrades. Nothing major, just stuff that would make it more reliable.

Ordered and installed Power Arc ignition form Old Britts. Many problems, including the points module being too large (by 1/8 inch) to fit in the hole.
Took a file to it and after four hours of careful trimming it fit.
Resolved other problems as the appeared, including non-factory sized cam bolt, etc.
Set to specs and it started after about 12 kicks. No big improvement.
Must be the old worn Amal carbs.

Ordered and installed PWK flat-sides from Jim. Many problems, including a float that was stuck and spewing fuel out the overflow port.
Resolved the problem over the phone with Jim.
Set them to his initial specs, checked throttle cables for slack etc.
Installed carbs for fourth time (losing count).

Finally tried to fire it up today.
Now all I can get out of it is silence, or backfires.
Jim says it is the ignition.
Fred says it might be poor ground. BUT it worked before the carb change.

At the end of my patience and knowledge.

:cry: :?:

Click to expand...

Basics, you WILL learn them, or buy a V-strom (out of frustration). Suck squeeze bang blow. Plugs wet (with gas)? Make ' em dry. Or dry? Make 'em wet. Good big blue spark? Compression tests as expected? Check and report back please.

Re: From excitement to frustration in 2 short months

Well it sure is a good thing that you didn't buy a Goldstar. With the added combination of the extra age, the magneto, race tuned engine, remote float carburetor, added vibration and having only one cylinder. Even when it is running perfectly you are pretty lucky if it ever starts first kick. I am hoping after this winters re building most of the frustrations of this machine will be replaced by pleasure. I never expect is to be as enjoyable as the Commando.

The challenge of these bikes does make riding them when they are working properly more rewarding. But sometimes when everything all happens at once it is a good idea to have a second bike. (or 9 other bikes)

The Commando once everything is right can be a first kick starter and a reliable touring bike. You are going on the right path with new ignition and new carburettors, but it is better to just do one at a time.

Re: From excitement to frustration in 2 short months

One rule I've learned is only change one thing at a time (if you really must change it) and get it working. Other people have also been sucked in and had various problems with the stuff that you bought.

I'm sorry to say that you now have a mess to unravel. I would go back to these suppliers and have them walk you through everything. 1-up-3-down should be very capable (even though we don't always agree on everything). Ply him with cases of his favorite beer. Don't lose hope OK? You guys can solve this.

Why the hell would you have to file any electronic ignition to get it to fit? Just crazy...

Re: From excitement to frustration in 2 short months

Carry a fire extinguisher until you are SURE the carbs are sorted out...when I bought my current Commando the PO had installed new floats in the Amals that were too wide and stuck, this caused a fire when I was kicking it over which I barely got put out with my gloves, could very easily have lost the bike.

Re: From excitement to frustration in 2 short months

Tom,

I've just installed a set of these carbs as well.
I'll be anxious to hear what the problem is.

Mark

Re: From excitement to frustration in 2 short months

One question you should ask yourself: 'who is the boss in this situation ?' Your bike doesn't have a brain. Check that your carbs are internally correct and set the idle screws slightly rich. Check your ignition system and timing. If you've got compression it must start.

Re: From excitement to frustration in 2 short months - UPDAT

For those that are interested - I just updated the original post.