Frame repair on 68 commando - good to go?

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commandohill

commandohill

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May 31, 2014
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I just bought a 1968 Commando, SN 127336, numbers matching. I was aware of the frame issue and work has been done on this bike, but I invite your thoughts on the quality of it. I've attached several photos that show the repairs that was done. Are they sufficient? If not, what are my options, what would you do? Thanks.

Not skiiled enough (yet) to add photos, see then at
https://photos.app.goo.gl/uIOjFelPMETJ53pb2
 
I hope I don’t offend you by saying that I’m not sure whether you’re joking or not...

IMHO that frame is utterly unusable.

The factory cure was to add an extra horizontal brace, that has not been added to your frame, so, even though there is extra plating etc, the stresses that cause breakages are still there.

The quality of the welding shows, quite clearly, that this work was not done by a skilled person proficient in frame repairs.

So, in summary, the repair is ‘wrong’, and the work is poor. Add to this, that if the work has been done by someone who is not a frame expert, then the alignment and geometry could be all over the place.

You either need this work undone and redone by a skilled frame repairer, or a replacement frame.
 
Geezzz Eddie you're a bit fussy , the scrap man ain't going to care what it looks like
 
Fast Eddie is telling you how it is, good advice to scrap it of have it redone properly by a proficient frame repairer.
Probably all misaligned how it is.
Regards Mike
 
Welcome to the forum!

Replacement frames can be found for less than $500, just use a bit of patience.

Here is one for $600 https://www.ebay.com/itm/Norton-Com...ash=item3f8cedf3f8:g:9UIAAOSwdSRaE6gj&vxp=mtr Listed with "Buy It Now" price. I'll bet the seller will consider a bit less.

You can also obtain a new frame tag and stamp it with your serial number, as you will be doing a valid replacement. Some will argue this point, but it is completely legitimate as long as the frame you buy is obtained legally. Common sense agrees.

You might want to fill in your profile and include your geographic location so others can direct you to a deal on a legal frame that may be closer to you.

Also, you can use ANY year Commando frame and it will work (WITH SOME MODS AND STAND SWAP). Purists don't own the bike, YOU do. (besides, a later frame is better)
 
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I agree that it looks like a homemade repair. A lot like the chopper frame rakes that we saw in the 70s. I've used Dick at WASCO Frames in Washington State since the 80s. If he's convenient this guy knows his stuff. wascoframe.com (253) 927-0669
Like the rest of us Dick is getting on in years so he may be tapering off into retirement as are most of the guys that know British bikes
 
YukoNorton said:
Agreed, that does not look good; in the third photo, it almost looks like it has been raked - and wrecked. This '68 frame on ebay from British Only for $632 (US) may be an option: https://www.ebay.com/itm/Norton-Frame-750-Commando-1968-FN-127-8-Used-40-10398-/253014986608
Click to expand...

I believe this is also a Widowmaker frame.
You wouldn't want to use this without modification, in which case you might be as well off to have someone fix your existing frame.

Alternatively, purchase a later frame such as the one in Grandpaul's post.
The main difference is the horizontal brace tube below the main spine. Look for a frame that has that in place.

Glen
 
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I own a 1968 with a widowmaker frame that had a much better repair than the one shown here, and I still bought a replacement frame. I agree with Fast Eddie, without the long reinforcement strut running under the large diameter tube, you still have major stress riser issues. And I wouldn't trust any of the welding repairs I see around the steering head. Grandpaul is correct, any Commando frame will work, but the newer frames will use different center stand and side stand. If you want to be a purist, chase down a 1969 frame with the additional strut, cause that is what the factory handed out when they replaced the widowmaker frame. Then reattaching your original frame number plate begins to make more sense.

Stephen Hill
 
Don't forget that although any commando frame will work that the 750 has a 27 ° rake and the 850 has 28° rake,also if your fitting a fastback tail unit some frames are a bit wider on the seat loop, that "repair" to that frame is possibly the worst I have ever seen I would scrap that frame and find another, cheers
 
baz said:
...that "repair" to that frame is possibly the worst I have ever seen ...
Click to expand...

I have a new "worst" - My late friend's 1971 BMW R75/5

Frame repair on 68 commando - good to go?

Frame repair on 68 commando - good to go?

Hard to tell from this photo, but the bike was obviously involved in a MAJOR head-on collision. After the nightmarish bodge job in the top photo, they then proceeded to BEAT the hunch-back out of the main spine with a large sledge hammer. Note the grossly buckled front downtubes and thick hunk of steel plate welded in to "join" the two pieces of the main spine back together with at least an inch of misalignment remaining...
 
baz said:
Don't forget that although any commando frame will work that the 750 has a 27 ° rake and the 850 has 28° rake,also if your fitting a fastback tail unit some frames are a bit wider on the seat loop, that "repair" to that frame is possibly the worst I have ever seen I would scrap that frame and find another, cheers
Click to expand...

Plus your early commando yokes may have less offset than later model yokes, which would not be problematic if matched with the 28 degree rake frame because it would make your bike a little more stable going straight, but have slightly heavier steering. I doubt you would notice the slower steering riding on the street.

Edited to add: That repair is horrific. I wouldn't trust that repair, nor risk my good money and possibly my life making that frame into a ridable bike...
 
Worth mentioning that a post '70 frame does away with the centrestand bracket and uses a different sidestand bracket too.
Head bearings also changed from cup & cone to sealed races with a spacer tube.

So unless you can source another pre-'70 frame, budget for a new centrestand, sidestand and associated springs etc. The gearbox cradle will also need to be modded to take the later type centrestand.
Not sure if the head bearings would present any issue, but just something to consider.

I'd love to see that frame restored back to serviceable - it isn't totally beyond repair and Andover Norton sell individual components.
https://andover-norton.co.uk/en/shop-drawing/457/early-commando-frame-repair-items

It would take one hell of a welder to do it though, and a new frame would probably end up cheaper!

New frame very pricey though... gives a perspective on the value of a good used one.
https://andover-norton.co.uk/en/shop-details/15542
 
I think the new frame is a bloody bargain! Look how much a new Manx rep or Seeely, Rickman, et al would cost.

It’s even painted, thus saving quite a wedge in blasting and painting, not to mention any repairs etc.

And zero corrosion...

And zero age related stress...

And zero unknown history...

And zero question marks over alignment etc...
 
THANKS SO MUCH FOR YOUR RESPONSES. Looks like I'll be frame shopping in the New Year. I bought this from photos for a decent price, so I have a bit of a budget for the restoration. When I got the bike and took the close-up pix that I posted, I suspected I was in for a bit of a spanking, but your expertise and willingness to share is appreciated. Any leads on a frame will be appreciated and I also need a head for the early 750 motor. Best to you all for the New Year!
 
commandohill said:
.... Any leads on a frame will be appreciated and I also need a head for the early 750 motor. Best to you all for the New Year!
Click to expand...

I have a "repaired" widowmaker frame that looks quite like yours! I keep it out in the shed as a source for tubes to repair less screwed up frames.

A quick eBay search turns up these...

This one includes a set of numbers matching cases.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Norton-750...ash=item2396553f03:g:ZQ8AAOSwIWVZAT3n&vxp=mtr

This one requires some straightening and is pricier.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1971-Norto...ash=item362416438a:g:JusAAOSwHZ1ZwYqB&vxp=mtr
 
The earlier type frame triple clamps will not fit the newer frame without considerable modification to the bearing bores and the steering stop, it is best to get an earlier frame with the strengthening brace but which has the frame mounted centre stand.
 
Note that the later frames DO NOT have the gusset plates on the sides at the headstock...
 
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