Follower scar oil tests (2018)

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Higher load and lower total heat than the VR1 20/50, quite impressive if we didn't have the likes of BelRay
Did the straight 50 turn black like the 20/50 did?


Glen
 
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40 minutes on it darkened it quite a bit, but not as bad as the 20W50
Follower scar oil tests (2018)
 
Going way back to the onset of viscosity index improvers, I ran 50W instead of 20W50, despite the claim of superior cold start protection, because it was said that the VIIs were a way for the oil companies to substitute cheap low viscosity oil for more precious high viscosity oil and that the VIIs would fail, leaving you with 20W. I don't know if that was true then or if there's truth in it now.

Jim, at this point, can you venture an opinion about this?
 
Going way back to the onset of viscosity index improvers, I ran 50W instead of 20W50, despite the claim of superior cold start protection, because it was said that the VIIs were a way for the oil companies to substitute cheap low viscosity oil for more precious high viscosity oil and that the VIIs would fail, leaving you with 20W. I don't know if that was true then or if there's truth in it now.

Jim, at this point, can you venture an opinion about this?

I don't know that I would say it was a cheap way to make oil thick, but before the modern processing methods it was the only way to make a single grade oil into an oil that would meet the multi-viscosity spec.

Adding the VI polymers to a light weight oil would keep the oil from thinning as much when it got hot. This method worked fine as long as there was not a lot of shear or heat involved.

A Norton motor would kill the VI additives in old multi-viscosity oils very quickly.
The combination of heat and shear would cause the polymers to fail and then the oil would revert to it's original viscosity.
Add a little dilution from gasoline [leaky Amal or rich choke] or diesel fuel [rolling coal] and the problem got even worse. It doesn't take much dilution to kill the load capacity of an oil.
This caused a lot of cam failures in the late 70's and 80's

The Vi additives are no longer a concern with the modern processing methods used for high quality oils.

Of course dilution is still a concern.
 
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Jim, I wonder if a straight weight synthetic, over time, and assuming careful engine warm up, might offer superior scar protection, compared to a multigrade of the same brand/quality. Am I wrong?

Answering my own question, I guess its hard to say "same" when the use of different viscosity base oils will dictate that the engineers select different additives.
 
Jim, I wonder if a straight weight synthetic, over time, and assuming careful engine warm up, might offer superior scar protection, compared to a multigrade of the same brand/quality. Am I wrong?

Answering my own question, I guess its hard to say "same" when the use of different viscosity base oils will dictate that the engineers select different additives.

My understanding after speaking to several oil people is the "synthetics" or highly refined oils are often a mixture of PAO and ester oil bases. It is the ratio of the mixture that gives the oil it's viscosity rating. They said that because the base oils are very stable they will meet the multi-viscosity rating with no vi additives.
I have noticed that some of the "straight rate" synthetics like Red Line 60 Racing say in their literature that although it is rated as a straight weight oil it meets the specs for a multi rate oil. 20W60 in the case of Red Line 60.
 
Are oils ratings sort of like BMW model numbers? They once told us the displacement of the engine and now they represent what we might expect for performance?
 
Here is my rant on "synthetic" oils.

The term synthetic is a worthless and very abused word in the oil industry. The truth is all oils are made from the remains of vegetation from the Jurassic period. It will be made from crude oil or natural gas or maybe even coal dust.

If we are lucky we will get a highly refined lubricant in a bottle marked "synthetic". Most synthetics are made from highly refined crude oil.

But, there is no specification or regulation saying what may be called synthetic.
Legally an oil company could bottle some "Head and Shoulders" shampoo and sell it as synthetic oil.
By the way "Head and Shoulders" shampoo will pass a Timkin oil film test with excellent results.

It would be a lot more useful if oil was sold according to the class of lubricant.

Class 1 has minimal refining and contains impurities that reduce it's lubricating qualities.
Class 2 has more refining
Class 3 is better yet
Class 4 and 5 are what we would generally refer to as "synthetics" as they are highly refined
Class 4 are usually PAO bases and Class 5 are usually ester bases.

But oils are not generally advertised this way. Calling the oil company may get the answer or they may just say it is proprietary information.

Royal Purple and MPT said their "synthetics" are a blend of group 4 and group 5 oils.

Mobil 1 would not say. I would guess they're using some group 3 oils in their mixtures.

https://www.machinerylubrication.com/Read/29113/base-oil-groups
 
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By the way "Head and Shoulders" shampoo will pass a Timkin oil film test with excellent results.

OMG. I really need to know how you know this?

I use H&S and fundamentally am confused between the base formulation and the "Mens" product.

LOL
 
OMG. I really need to know how you know this?

I use H&S and fundamentally am confused between the base formulation and the "Mens" product.

LOL

My brother in law laughed at me when I picked up my old Timkin load tester many years ago. He called it a one armed bandit and told me Head and Shoulders would test better than most oils. He was right but I don't know why he knew that.
[I would not suggest trying it in your motor:p]
 
H&S, its simple, it helps to stop your finger nails scaring your head, would not use it in a motor - too expensive here in the UK!
 
This reminds me of the old Click and Clack radio show when they got involved in commenting on Creme Rinse....
I dont use H&S in my Norton but I have taken to using Castrol XL Classic on my hair as it seemed cost effective!
 
This reminds me of the old Click and Clack radio show when they got involved in commenting on Creme Rinse....
I dont use H&S in my Norton but I have taken to using Castrol XL Classic on my hair as it seemed cost effective!

Ahh... yes, the Tappet brothers.
 
My understanding after speaking to several oil people is the "synthetics" or highly refined oils are often a mixture of PAO and ester oil bases. It is the ratio of the mixture that gives the oil it's viscosity rating. They said that because the base oils are very stable they will meet the multi-viscosity rating with no vi additives.
I have noticed that some of the "straight rate" synthetics like Red Line 60 Racing say in their literature that although it is rated as a straight weight oil it meets the specs for a multi rate oil. 20W60 in the case of Red Line 60.


Jim, I got a similar answer some years ago from Red Line. I had been using their 50W racing oil for quite a few years, when I ordered a case of it and found the bottles marked as 20W50 race oil. I called them, and they told me that the synthetic they used did not need a VI improver to meet the multi-grade specs, and that the oil I received was in fact the same as the stuff marked 50W. That was a long time back, and the varieties they offer has changed since then (race or street, bikes or cars), but I think the basic premise is probably still correct, i.e. high quality synthetics don't need vi additives.

Really great thread, by the way. I'm still suffering from oil data overload (but in a good way).

Ken
 
Hi;

So from this I can see that my factory oil fill of Fuchs Silkolene 20W50 Comp 4 is entry level, my bike gots 340 Klms so not even run in yet, given the bike's 4 years old and presumed standing for a while I'm thinking of dropping the current oil as being suspect and obviously old.

Was going to user the factory Silkolene again until run in then given the warmer climate here in Aus find a locally accessible product for long term.

Seems that locally the Mobile 1 V-Twin is available, unsure about the additive "BGMOA" is that in the product or something I need to source ? edit* Just found Royal Purple available in Aus although at $112.05 + shipping for 5litre is extortion :eek:

Also says on the Tin that its for both gearbox and engine ?

Any thoughts would be most welcome.

Thanks guys

Follower scar oil tests (2018)

Follower scar oil tests (2018)
 
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