Follower scar oil tests (2018)

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Jagbruno said:
I just had a look at the above link, are you sure that is indeed the tested oil as this seem to be a very generic low cost car oil, suitable both for petrol and diesel engines?!?
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The one I have have exactly the same packaging than the one on the link.
 
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Castrol_R40
Follower scar oil tests (2018)

242 Lbs Load
1.9 total heat from friction
Bean Oil
Suitable for Racing Nortons
 
Matchless said:
Jim,
When you've finished testing which oil works best in Norton engines, maybe you could develop a test for which Scotch works best in Norton riders.
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After years of careful testing i can confirm that the best scotch is the one sampled in the company of good friends, and only improved if you happen to be raiding the friends reserves at the time.
 
Might be time to start the marketing.
I would be willing to work as consultant for half share.
My ideas so far-

We label it "J.C.'s Rebuild in a Can"

Get some decals made, slap them on some race-bikes, also photo of old guy with happy/shocked look popping wheelie on old bike with new found power....
I have more but first youll need to sign the documents:)

Glen
 
Just some pondering...

Re suitable/not suitable for wet clutch; how does that affect use in a Norton?

I would call an OEM norton a wet clutch since it runs in the primary case with oil mist flying all around. Others claim it is a dry clutch that was mistakenly used by the factory. In any case, whether originally designed as wet or dry, it's certainly wet in an OEM Commando.

Lots of folks use ATF in the primary anyway so, in that regard, the engine oil doesn't matter at all. But if someone runs engine oil (per the owners/service manual), it seems to me that oil not suitable for a wet clutch might cause clutch slipping.

But, I could be wrong. As I said, just pondering... ;)
 
MexicoMike said:
Just some pondering...

Re suitable/not suitable for wet clutch; how does that affect use in a Norton?

I would call an OEM norton a wet clutch since it runs in the primary case with oil mist flying all around. Others claim it is a dry clutch that was mistakenly used by the factory. In any case, whether originally designed as wet or dry, it's certainly wet in an OEM Commando.

Lots of folks use ATF in the primary anyway so, in that regard, the engine oil doesn't matter at all. But if someone runs engine oil (per the owners/service manual), it seems to me that oil not suitable for a wet clutch might cause clutch slipping.

But, I could be wrong. As I said, just pondering... ;)
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Usually It would not have any affect on a Norton and is just listed because the data is also applicable to other motorcycles.

You would not want to use the "not safe" oils in your Norton primary chaincase.
 
MexicoMike said:
Just some pondering...

Re suitable/not suitable for wet clutch; how does that affect use in a Norton?

I would call an OEM norton a wet clutch since it runs in the primary case with oil mist flying all around. Others claim it is a dry clutch that was mistakenly used by the factory. In any case, whether originally designed as wet or dry, it's certainly wet in an OEM Commando.

Lots of folks use ATF in the primary anyway so, in that regard, the engine oil doesn't matter at all. But if someone runs engine oil (per the owners/service manual), it seems to me that oil not suitable for a wet clutch might cause clutch slipping.

But, I could be wrong. As I said, just pondering... ;)
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You can make a Commando clutch slip just by using too much oil, pretty much whatever it is, as people did back in the '70s before the additive packs demanded motorcycle specific oils!
 
TBH, I never noticed any clutch slippage on my original '71 Commando back in the day running engine oil in the primary. I installed Barnett clutch plates shortly after purchasing it "just because" - maybe that made a difference. Like many folks, I use ATF in my current 850 primary but back then I don't think anyone used ATF for that - well, never heard of anybody using it.
 
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MexicoMike said:
TBH, I never noticed any clutch slippage on my original '71 Commando back in the day running engine oil in the primary. I installed Barnett clutch plates shortly after purchasing it "just because" - maybe that made a difference. Like many folks, I use ATF in my current 850 primary but back then I don't think anyone used ATF for that - well, never heard of anybody using it.
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I raced a 750 Commando in '75 with a fibre plate clutch. Filled to the level plug with engine oil, after time and under duress, the clutch slipped. Everyone else, including those using the sintered clutch, said the same. People removing plates and washing them in petrol was a common sight. The late Dave Rawlins, then a works Norton tester, told me to put a drip tray under the level plug and lean the bike right over and stand it up when no more oil came out. End of clutch slip! It never happened again. He said the level plug was in the wrong place.

I agree that I didn't know anyone using ATF at that time. I have always assumed that people used ATF to limit clutch slip. I can see no other reason to use it! Less engine oil will sort it in most cases.

But hey, this is an engine oil thread I am sure there are primary oil threads. As Jim says, he is just including extra info. I have other bikes with wet clutches!
 
So Just like every other additive I have tested. It may work and it may not.
Here is another case where it helped, just not as much
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Royal Purple Max Cycle 20W50 with BG-MOA
Follower scar oil tests (2018)

230 lbs load capacity [60 lb increase with BG-MOA]
.624 total heat from friction
.01 heat from viscous friction
.95 heat from high speed shear
Safe for wet clutch
A very good choice for a Norton
 
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Royal Purple HPS 20W50
Follower scar oil tests (2018)

457 lbs load capacity
.439 total heat from friction
.016 heat from viscous friction
.65 heat from high pressure shear
Not safe for wet clutch
Good choice for a Norton
 
Royal Purple HPS 20W50 with BG-MOA
Follower scar oil tests (2018)

284 lbs load capacity [173 lbs loss with additive]
.45 total heat from friction
0 heat from viscous friction
.69 heat from high pressure shear
Not safe for wet clutch
Poor mixture -not recommended.
 
Dave Rawlins is right, the position of the primary's oil drain plug is too high, allowing too much unneeded lube in the primary, enough so that the chain is moving through oil on every revolution.
That much oil flying around also gets through to and oil the clutch plates causing slipping.
The fact that the Commando clutch requires no lube to operate perfectly makes it a dry clutch.
Proof of that is obvious, belt primaries run dry and the clutch plates do not slip because not lubed.
Regarding ATF, the original and still best contention for it replacing engine oil in the chain primary is because not only is ATF thinner and can get thrown around easier, therefore less of it is needed, which then allows the clutch plates to be drier.
 
1up3down said:
Dave Rawlins is right, the position of the primary's oil drain plug is too high, allowing too much unneeded lube in the primary, enough so that the chain is moving through oil on every revolution.
That much oil flying around also gets through to and oil the clutch plates causing slipping.
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Well I knew he was right, I had immediate proof...... ;)

But as a young technician it was my first indication that trusting technical data without confirming the veracity of it may not be smart! o_O
 
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