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Follower scar oil tests

Discussion in 'Norton Commando Motorcycles (Classic)' started by comnoz, Aug 21, 2018.

  1. Brooking 850

    Brooking 850 VIP MEMBER

    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2011
    Gortnipper, if you cant find RP XPR in NZ, Driven (Joe Gibbs) oil is available , thats what I use in my race bike.
    Here s hopinhg it passes Jims testing.
    I use their break in oil ,BR, for both bikes (road bike motor had its first start up yesterday)and then I will be running Torco TR 1 MPZ 10W40 in the roadbike as I bought a drum of it for another Norton owner who decided he didnt require it, so I will use it.
    Maybe another one for Jims testing as its a USA made product.
    Torco is readily available in NZ

    https://www.torcousa.com/technology/TR-1.pdf

    Available here :
    https://www.1stparts.co.nz

    Regards Mike
     
  2. rvich

    rvich VIP MEMBER

    Joined:
    Jul 25, 2009
    This is some of the coolest stuff posted in this forum in a long time. But before we all run out and buy Royal Purple (if we can find it), it seems to me we should make an effort to build a data base. Jim has already stated his goal was to gather information regarding cam failure more than specifically test oils.

    There are plenty of smart people here. Can we collectively design a contraption that would be easy for lots of members to duplicate at home so that independent tests could be done in a manner where the data could be compared? (Before anyone asks, no, I am not joking). The consumable pieces (follower and arbor race) would need to be something that could be purchased cheap enough to throw away as opposed to resurface. Otherwise the database would be skewed. Other than that testers would just need to duplicate RPM and leverage/pressure.

    We also need to realize that using two ounces of oil allows a fairly short duration test. If it was running four quarts of oil it might take so long to cause breakdown that it would become irrelevant. And this I suspect is why most of us get away with running lesser oils.
     
  3. gortnipper

    gortnipper VIP MEMBER

    Joined:
    Nov 11, 2013
    No worries, Jim. You cant really plan for these unknown unknowns, can you?

    It is all together and running. I take your point re. catching it early. May have to search out a USB type camera.

    I have been using Mobil 1 V-twin 20w-50. Will be interesting to see the results on the Driven and/or Torco.
     
  4. htown16

    htown16 VIP MEMBER

    Joined:
    Apr 29, 2009
    I'll send you some Valvoline dino. How are people shipping you oil? Fraid if I sent via USPS they ask if it is liquid and if I say motor oil they will go full Hazmat.
     
  5. comnoz

    comnoz VIP MEMBER

    Joined:
    Dec 10, 2008
    New motor oil is not considered to be hazardous. I don't think there is any problem with shipping via ground. I get most of my oil from Amazon. It comes via UPS.
     
  6. htown16

    htown16 VIP MEMBER

    Joined:
    Apr 29, 2009
    I'll get some headed your way.
     
  7. worntorn

    worntorn

    Joined:
    Dec 22, 2006
  8. comnoz

    comnoz VIP MEMBER

    Joined:
    Dec 10, 2008
    I would not be too trusting of that. He has posted a lot of different results.

    I have talked to the Royal Purple tech people and they will only say the zinc and phosphorus levels are in excess of 1300 ppm.
     
  9. Onder

    Onder

    Joined:
    May 11, 2010
    Not a lot of 20-50 stuff in that report.
     
  10. o0norton0o

    o0norton0o

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2015
    I wonder how that Jewel amber oil would fair in that test. I use it in my speedo gearbox...
     
  11. worntorn

    worntorn

    Joined:
    Dec 22, 2006
    The oil change interval on the 2016 Thruxton 1200 is 16,000 kms or 10,000 miles. At that mileage it still looks decent, but I'm happy to change it and happy to buy 4 quarts of the good stuff.

    Wouldn't that be nice if our old Nortons were OK to run oil to that kind of mileage
    I doubt that my Commando's oil would still be pumpable at that mileage.
    That was the beauty of VR1, it is cheap enough to change often.
    I'd probably be better off using Jim's cast off Royal Purple than fresh clean VR1.

    Glen
     
    Nater_Potater likes this.
  12. elefantrider

    elefantrider VIP MEMBER

    Joined:
    Apr 6, 2013
    Valvoline had people fooled for years with their clever marketing. It seriously looks like just overpriced standard oil.

    I have been running M1 V-twin in all my 2 wheel machines since seeing Jim's previous tests. Expensive, but easy to get a quart if needed. Would prefer to use the cheaper 5qt container of 15w50 Mobil1 car oil which is about half price as V-twin but apparently they are different.

    I was always intrigued to hear when car people claimed that the purple stuff with the funny name (thought it was clever marketing too) was the best oil. But proof is here. Very popular with the drag race crowd.

    RP write on their site that XPR has the most Synerlec additive of all their oils.
     
    Last edited: Aug 24, 2018
  13. gtiller

    gtiller VIP MEMBER

    Joined:
    Nov 5, 2012
    @rvich I agree that this is a very valuable resource.

    However, I think it would add too many variables into the equation for those of us that are interested to replicate @comnoz’s tests.


    Instead, I would propose that we all do something along the lines of making a contribution to the work that Jim is doing.

    For example, if Jim agrees to ‘own’ this research and those that have been active on the recent cam and follower wear threads were to contribute say $25 to Jim’s PayPal account, it would go some way towards covering at least some of his costs.

    I’m sure that most of us would be up for doing this on the grounds that we are all into our bikes for the long term.


    There are many here (myself included) that would be prepared to make and maintain a decent comparison table which we can pin somewhere on the site.
    It will also be a useful resource to point newbies at when they come along asking what oil to run.

    Thoughts?
     
  14. Atlas Commando

    Atlas Commando VIP MEMBER

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2018
    I'll buy in if this is agreeable to Jim. I'd like to know more about favorable choices for my vintage 'fleet' (more of a 'mound' of parts really), and I've been thinking of moving away from Harley's expensive oil for my v-twins, would really like to select the replacement oil based on data.
     
  15. comnoz

    comnoz VIP MEMBER

    Joined:
    Dec 10, 2008
    I am working on using datalogging equipment to run an automated test and create a graph on each oil. It will show load vs friction and time till failure.

    It's all working well except I am waiting for a strain gauge amp to get here.

    It gives a lot more information in an easy to understand picture. Jim
     
  16. swooshdave

    swooshdave

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2009
    Less everyone run out and throw away your VR1 there is apparently a synthetic version that has not been tested.
     
  17. worntorn

    worntorn

    Joined:
    Dec 22, 2006
    Yes, it's in a black bottle .And not that much different in pricing from Royal Purple XPR or Redline Synthetic Motorcycle oil.

    Glen
     
  18. elefantrider

    elefantrider VIP MEMBER

    Joined:
    Apr 6, 2013
    Last edited: Aug 24, 2018
  19. worntorn

    worntorn

    Joined:
    Dec 22, 2006
    Paul likes this.
  20. jaydee75

    jaydee75

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2012