Follower scar oil tests (2018)

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I saw this a while ago and it really tickled me!

It’s also a good reminder to self though, we can NEVER all agree. Internet arguments often rage for ages with neither side even remotely succeeding in change the views of the other. IMHO we have to learn to know when it’s time to stop and be happy to agree to disagree.


Follower scar oil tests (2018)
MexicoMike said:
"This is why we love oil threads right! They are emotional ;)"

Yeah, I guess there is no help for it! I'm on another site (car) where "cam belt change interval" also ends up in twenty-some pages of debate...EVERY TIME. Oil, of course does pretty much the same thing EVERY TIME. :) Oh well, it has a certain element of fun. One Nortonian commented, when I pointed him to this thread, "You guys have too much spare time on your hands; you should be out riding motorcycles, not arguing about oil." Unsurprisingly, he does not participate on such sites even though he is the president of a Moto club and a past president of the International Norton Owners Association.
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Yep! I think it would be a good idea to move all of Jim's test results to a separate, locked thread where only he could post results without comments from the rest of us. I don't know if that's possible or not but that way, Jim's test info would be free of extraneous discussion. We can always continue here or start a new thread periodically as necessary to debate choosing oil by test, personal experience, or cool name. ;)
 
Fast Eddie said:
Regarding the GTX debate, I note Jim’s actual comment:

“Excellent protection for Nortons in cooler climates or for short trips with 1000 mile oil changes”.

Frankly, that sums up a LOT of Norton owners. So actually, GTX is a great choice for a great number of owners.

I won’t be using it personally, I’ll still wait to find the best oil I can as I’m firmly in the “expensive oil is cheap insurance” camp.
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Essentially, Castrol GTX is a light duty oil with a short service life for Commandos. Heat and friction produced, high in this case, are more important than the high load capacity. I disagree with your statement that GTX is a great choice. I would be more inclined to say it is adequate for short travel intervals if changed rather frequently.

I have no grind against Castrol GTX. Used it for years. Also had excessive cam lobe wear. It’s just that I see the testing Jim Comstock is doing shows many other oils being a better choice for Norton Commandos.
 
MexicoMike said:
Yep! I think it would be a good idea to move all of Jim's test results to a separate, locked thread where only he could post results without comments from the rest of us. I don't know if that's possible or not but that way, Jim's test info would be free of extraneous discussion. We can always continue here or start a new thread periodically as necessary to debate choosing oil by test, personal experience, or cool name. ;)
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I think that is a fantastic idea...

How about it Jerry ?
 
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JimC said:
I disagree with your statement that GTX is a great choice. I would be more inclined to say it is adequate for short travel intervals if changed rather frequently.
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Let’s remember Jim Comstocks summary:

“Excellent protection for Nortons in cooler climates or for short trips with 1000 mile oil changes”.

Therefore, if you are a rider in a cooler climate, doing shorter trips, with 1000 mile changes, you will have an oil that is providing your engine with “excellent protection”.

I’m not going to debate the semantics of whether this constitutes a “great” or “adequate” choice.

The point surely is, if you’re such a rider, in such a climate, GTX will provide “excellent protection”.

To a lot of riders, especially in the U.K. which is usually a cooler climate, and GTX is available just about everywhere, this is going to be a welcome finding.
 
Fast Eddie said:
Let’s remember Jim Comstocks summary:

“Excellent protection for Nortons in cooler climates or for short trips with 1000 mile oil changes”.

Therefore, if you are a rider in a cooler climate, doing shorter trips, with 1000 mile changes, you will have an oil that is providing your engine with “excellent protection”.

I’m not going to debate the semantics of whether this constitutes a “great” or “adequate” choice.

The point surely is, if you’re such a rider, in such a climate, GTX will provide “excellent protection”.

To a lot of riders, especially in the U.K. which is usually a cooler climate, and GTX is available just about everywhere, this is going to be a welcome finding.
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I totally disagree. High heat and high friction are enemies of any engine in any climate, no matter how short the service interval.
 
Fast Eddie said:
In that case, your argument is with Jim Comstock and his conclusions, not me.
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I’ll disagree with anyone that says an oil that produces high friction, hence high heat, is a great choice for any engine, let alone a Norton Commando.
 
Understood Jim.

BTW, I do not, or have any intention of using GTX, thus I’ve no allegiance to it at all.
 
Fast Eddie said:
Understood Jim.

BTW, I do not, or have any intention of using GTX, thus I’ve no allegiance to it at all.
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I never thought you did. I just thought your claim of Castrol GTX being a great choice was totally unfounded.

I suppose this oil thing is somewhat like money. Having more money than you spend is preferable to being broke the day before payday.
 
Fast Eddie said:
Maybe you’re like me Jagbruno, I’d really like to standardise and have ONE oil in stock for all my bikes.

That means both dry and wet clutches...
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M1 Vtwin looks like a good compromise, but not the BEST for Nortons, which is what you say you want.

178 lbs load
355 degree follower temp
<1% cooling fan duty
Medium/Low friction
Proven to work well in moderately high performance Nortons
OK for wet clutches

Not sure that you will get one oil for your Blue Bomber that is outstanding, and equally great for your wet clutch modern without flat tappets...
 
JimC said:
I never thought you did. I just thought your claim of Castrol GTX being a great choice was totally unfounded.

I suppose this oil thing is somewhat like money. Having more money than you spend is preferable to being broke the day before payday.
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Like I said, I’m not getting into a semantic debate.

I think I’ve made my point regarding the quoted “excellent protection” provided within certain boundaries, and how that many people will welcome that.

I don’t have anything else to add.
 
Fast Eddie said:
Like I said, I’m not getting into a semantic debate.

I think I’ve made my point regarding the quoted “excellent protection” provided within certain boundaries, and how that many people will welcome that.

I don’t have anything else to add.
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Semantics? You said great. I said adequate. I should add under limited conditions.
 
gortnipper said:
M1 Vtwin looks like a good compromise, but not the BEST for Nortons, which is what you say you want.

178 lbs load
355 degree follower temp
<1% cooling fan duty
Medium/Low friction
Proven to work well in moderately high performance Nortons
OK for wet clutches

Not sure that you will get one oil for your Blue Bomber that is outstanding, and equally great for your wet clutch modern without flat tappets...
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Yes, you may well be right, I haven’t given up all hope just yet though!

I am however beginning to wonder about something that was asked by another poster a while back, and that is, how does the ‘load’ measure relate to the load experienced in our engines?

Meaning, if we’re looking at several parameters (load, heat, friction) and there is not one oil that’s the best in all three, how can we decide which parameter(s) to compromise?

Contrary to how the discussion above has unfolded, personally I am in broad agreement with JimC in wanting to minimise the friction and heat.

IF... we knew what load figure was ‘appropriate’ then we could look for an oil that matched that whilst minimising heat and friction.

My favourite oil (Redline) has scored low in load, but great in terms of heat and friction. I might be clutching at straws here, but maybe that still makes it a good Norton oil?

I have no idea how to accomplish it, but having some reference points to the load figures would give it more meaning, to me at least.
 
Fast Eddie said:
Yes, you may well be right, I haven’t given up all hope just yet though!

I am however beginning to wonder about something that was asked by another poster a while back, and that is, how does the ‘load’ measure relate to the load experienced in our engines?

Meaning, if we’re looking at several parameters (load, heat, friction) and there is not one oil that’s the best in all three, how can we decide which parameter(s) to compromise?

Contrary to how the discussion above has unfolded, personally I am in broad agreement with JimC in wanting to minimise the friction and heat.

IF... we knew what load figure was ‘appropriate’ then we could look for an oil that matched that whilst minimising heat and friction.

My favourite oil (Redline) has scored low in load, but great in terms of heat and friction. I might be clutching at straws here, but maybe that still makes it a good Norton oil?

I have no idea how to accomplish it, but having some reference points to the load figures would give it more meaning, to me at least.
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Yup. As I see it, the high load of the Castrol is much less of a relevant factor than the high heat and high friction.
 
JimC said:
Yup. As I see it, the high load of the Castrol is much less of a relevant factor than the high heat and high friction.
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Careful Jim... we’re in grave danger of agreement !

Seriously, how can we ascertain some meaningful ‘Minimum / Ideal / Maximum’ reference numbers for load ? Doing this would be fantastic I think.
 
Fast Eddie said:
Careful Jim... we’re in grave danger of agreement !

Seriously, how can we ascertain some meaningful ‘Minimum / Ideal / Maximum’ reference numbers for load ? Doing this would be fantastic I think.
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The hang up is Jim Comstock’s summation of the GTX: “Excellent protection for Nortons in cooler climates or for short trips with 1000 mile oil changes.”

It may seem to be sacreligious to some, but I disagree with Jim’s summation. No way would I consider an oil that produces high heat, high friction and oxidizes quickly as excellent protection. Or a great choice.
 
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