Flying Pies ?

Another pie in the sky ?

https://www.motorcyclenews.com/news/2017/april/norton-rotron-200-bhp-race-bike/





Always thought this was a massive missed opertunity .



Are modern motorcycles really ' superior ' . ? or stamped out blingmobiles .

I have raced fairly quickly and I have crashed a lot. I never race faster than I am prepared to crash, so I stay away from larrge race circuits.
Why would you want this ? :

The Landsdowne series is fast enough for anyone. Anything else is stupidity. If you go faster, it is not a matter of 'if'' - it becomes 'when'.

acotrel said:

The Landsdowne series is fast enough for anyone. Anything else is stupidity. If you go faster, it is not a matter of 'if'' - it becomes 'when'.

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Your opinion ! .....all through the ages humans have improved physically and inteletually ... what was once a world record pace from 30 years ago ,in any endeavour , would not register now .. speed , strength , endourance have all improved greatly .... check out IOM speed and times from 30 years back and compare to any year since , always improved .... such is life on this planet for now anyway ....

Matt, Doug Fraser in Frankston has one of those rotaries as a race bike. I think he has even ridden it in an historic race. He probably goes to Eastern Creek now and then. If you give him a ring, he might let you have a tootle around on it.

Craig said:

Your opinion ! .....all through the ages humans have improved physically and inteletually ... what was once a world record pace from 30 years ago ,in any endeavour , would not register now .. speed , strength , endourance have all improved greatly .... check out IOM speed and times from 30 years back and compare to any year since , always improved .... such is life on this planet for now anyway ....

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It is important to know your own limitations. Donald Campbell and Parry Thomas were not idiots. In the last Classic Racer magazine, there is an article about Eric Offenstadt. He was competitive with a bike of 70 BHP against TZ750s and H2Rs which had 110 BHP. When you get something as fast as the rotary Nortons, if the weight distribution or steering geometry is wrong, you often only find out as you back-off or brake when coming down from top speed. Then you lose it.

Barry Sheene refused to race on the IOM - was he stupid ? When I was young, I would have been silly enough to race there. I am glad I never did. It is difficult enough even getting it right when racing around a small circuit, without 37 miles of it. Guys who ride regularly on public roads might have that mentality - I don't.

Things have changed a little . In comparison the MV was engine assisted so it could get up the hills a bit quicker .



135 mph lap , you wouldnt want to blink , in the wrong place .

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A tragady is that in 73 someone had done a Two Cylinder BDA ( for a fiat 500 I think ) 850 c.c. , 112 H.P.
As a non unit it wouldve eaten the Hondas for breakfast , at that time .
Whereas everyone got a bit overentusiastic playing ' the Big wheel ' & throwing scarce money around .

Before we get to excited , a gearbox ordinarilly had the lugs to the pre war ' single ' engine plate width ,
whereas if theyed put them out at the sides , give or take , there wouldnt be ' the twist ' that would
be the only relevant concern . If theyed used perhaps a Quaif mini C.R. gearset .

and a 3 1/4 top tube with 1 1/4 down tubes , on a Command frame mixed with the Egli set up
so that your feet wernt six inches off the deck , stationary .



The olde 73 rotisaries is more Akin to This .



i.e. as above with air cooled rotary , in 73 if funds had gone to reasearch in the aerospace metalury area ,and a Twin Cam Four Valve Belt Drive
TWIN was virtually ' on the shelf ' if theyed seen it . The usual snarky remarks on it , in ' the Press ' . Thus overlooked .
A interstate with a decent frame & front end / brakes ( Dew Cati had em , etc etc ) with 100 H P & period Automotive longivity
wouldve been ahead of a snoty 80 HP 5 Ton Z1 kwaka and the mundane GS 750 .

Thus if they wernt such a pack of cheapskates at the production level , amougst other things , they wouldntve fallen of the edge of the world .

I stillwonder at the modern chassis visual aspect , Vs the simplicity & solid engineering of something like the Seely & Rickman .
Then again , most modern owners wouldnt want to have to equip themselves for overhaul & the Anual De Coke appears long gone .
So todays Joe Normal is as famiar with his internals as he is with todays movie icons . In his mind only. if that . Whats a movie icon anyway .

I have spent about 40 days riding the TT course (mostly at normal speeds!) and know it well, I feel sick watching the vids (and this is a" slow" lap ), Its a very dangerous place ,even more so than it appears. These guys are freaks!, The average bike rider would not get round at half the speed.

The Red thing , when the Rotary was finally introduced , 10 years late , woulda bin fine for its then 60 - 80 Hp.



Woulda been relatively economical to produce . Light & Fast . Lighter and faster than a Bonneville Even . so a worthy replacement . ?

As for the current sucker , 200 Hp or not , What ARE they up to , , still at the snails pace with the odd leap development trajectory ,
were they ever a ' over the counter ' job , or anoother . . .

And As for this device ,



It looks like a Commando swinging arm 'd just about fit . or a oil tube triumph .
As regards to its stability of location , dynamic testings all you could try . Id think calculating case stability might be presumptious & take a lot longer .
Funny after whineing for decades that ' we need a new Vincent ' , the closest thing to it for centuries wasnt recognised or acclaimed as such .
Not bad for a back yard shed job .

Speed is always relative. If everyone is on a slow bike, you still have the situation where things happen extremely quickly. If you watch those videos of WizNorton, the speed differentials are horrendous. A MotoGP onboard shows big differentials, but WizNorton is something else. All you would be doing is taking aim and hoping the other guy did not move sideways.
I have watched several on board vids of the IOM. On that circuit, even the good guys sometimes get a bit lost. Watching a video is obviously different to being on the bike. But how would you be if you arrived at one of those corners on the wrong side of the road ?
If you race relying on reflexes, you are likely to end up dead. A lot depends on anticipation.

If you put most guys in a race mounted on a 1962 Manx, they would be uncompetitive against anyone who really knows how to ride one. So why do we need superbikes for racing ? A few years ago, I took the Seeley 850 to an old farts meeting at Mount Gambier where I won a couple of races. At the top end of the circuit, there is a high speed right hand curve which end with slight twist to the left. With my bike, if you gas it hard when cranked over it tightens it's line. I went around that bend on full throttle accelerating hard all the way. As I reached the end of it, I rode between two guys on G50 Matchlesses. I had about 40 MPH on them. If either of them had moved we probably would have all been dead. If the speed differentials are small, the racing is much safer.