dunstall? commando? spine race frame

hi I'm new to the forum I have an interesting spine race frame looks bit like a dunstall drainpipe but doesn't hold oil in the tubes? looks period and my best guess is for commando
can anyone tell me how to post a picture be nice to get it seen by people who may know cheers dave

In a nutshell, you have to post pics to a free site like say photobucket,
and then use the link to the pic there with the thingies here.

For some odd reason a %20 sign comes up just now, but it isn't needed in any way.

Rohan said:

For some odd reason a %20 sign comes up just now,

Click to expand...

http://www.w3schools.com/tags/ref_urlencode.asp

URL Encoding

URLs can only be sent over the Internet using the ASCII character-set.
Since URLs often contain characters outside the ASCII set, the URL has to be converted into a valid ASCII format.
URL encoding replaces unsafe ASCII characters with a "%" followed by two hexadecimal digits.
URLs cannot contain spaces. URL encoding normally replaces a space with a plus (+) sign or with %20.

Click to expand...

or pm a few folks, exchange emails with pix, then recipient can post the pix

https://www.dropbox.com/sc/2b0j821n16xh ... hEZRi8e9ga

https://www.dropbox.com/sc/hpl4dwdyst1erth/AADKU-MQARwSishDRmeSWE8la
https://www.dropbox.com/sc/y9v8xqmqathzj75/AABfer9p9ayBfHyWuSkwtfzAa
https://www.dropbox.com/sc/avow3v0wd8erafq/AACDVfc_Dr--DYWzU9hRA47Ra


thanks for the reply's guys -this is the only way my limited knowledge of computers lets me do it at the mo
hopefully pics are in the links

my thoughts are poss Rickman-- dunstall ? did Armstrong make commando frame?
-looks to good for home build--- its of brazed construction guess early 70s late 60s
cheers dave

Interesting chassis, but not that much like the Dunstall drainpipe.



Ken

hi yes the large downtube oil reservoir part of the downpipe design is missing also the diagonal frame tube under the top spine seems shallower angle-- guess this would give more room for engine
ive no idea what it is- or even if its for a commando?
my next step get some alloy commando eng plates see if they fit-
- does anyone have some for sale? cheers dave

Hi Davey

Nice to see you on here.
My two pence worth.
Engine plates. You have to make your own. I have a drawing for the Seeley Mk2 that you can use to make a hardboard pattern. However, look at the frame & see if you can find evidence of clamp on downtubes the marks should be on the top tubes near the headstock. All the Seeley type frames use a ladder or clamp on down tubes. The front engine plates are usually welded as one piece, to fix to these tubes. The rear rear engine plates are a 2 piece full loop around the gearbox picking up on the rear of the engine & below it . It is the distance for the frame mounts that will differ depending on whos frame it is. None of mine are in the same position.

As to who made your frame. In my view definately not a manufacturer. Built by a racer. My reasoning is simple. I have a John Caffrey Seeley MK4 built with Colin Seeleys approval. Before John had a mandrill to bend his tubes he used a spine frame for everything including big Jap 4's. ie No straight tubes!!! Exactly like your example. All the frame makers of the day would have used a bend for the lower loop below the gearbox. Did you get the swinging arm with it? this might give further clues. Strip the paint back on the headstock as both John Caffrey & Colin Seeley stamped there frames.

Great project

all the best Chris

hello Chris many thanks -- just a quick reply before I'm off to my bed
I have rubbed the frame no numbers visible -- may have to strip paint looks nickel plated under their
I have had tony foale frames and vendetta frames+ seeley in the past
this prob not foale to my mind looks earlier twin shock ---vendetta / Caffrey had passed my mind but no numbers? don't think seeley used spine frame design?
so who knows
I still think dunstall / rickman poss caffrey or home built but advanced design for anticipated age?
hopefully find out as intend to build it up anyway
but like to get it as I think was orig intended
cheers dave

davysprocket said:

hi yes the large downtube oil reservoir part of the downpipe design is missing also the diagonal frame tube under the top spine seems shallower angle-- guess this would give more room for engine
ive no idea what it is- or even if its for a commando?
my next step get some alloy commando eng plates see if they fit-
- does anyone have some for sale? cheers dave

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We can eliminate Rickman, Seeley and Dunstall, and I think also Lyster, and Paravani who built a Quest similar to the Dunstall low boy style. Not sure about Cheney. Did you put those Dunstall brakes in the mix?, or do they 'belong'? Cheney used them on a Yamaha stroker for Phil Read, which I am pretty sure was full cradle.

There are others out there that built frames that housed Norton engines, and even more that housed Norton gearboxes with other engines, including such exotica as Konigs.

I am really not sure what makes you think Armstrong, but perhaps thats because I associate them with a different period (later) and more radical designs.

Don't rule out home built, no matter how good the bronze welding is.

In real terms this thread should be moved to 'other' as its not a Commando frame as made by Norton, but that spine and rear frame/shock mount area does look inspired by the Commando design more than the Dunstall design.

from the above links

many thanks for sorting the pics out


this came with a Rickman swing arm but the diameter of spindle in arm was larger than on frame so have disregarded that
the forks were a later addition as I was convinced it was Dunstall still a possibility as purchased from Dartford kent
near Dunstalls and Seeley but at moment from whats said leaning towards poss a john caffrey creation

but its all speculation unless came find numbers or someone who knows ps had closer look at bottom loop think its been altered /squared off as it not brazed as rest of frame

thanks for all the help cheers dave

Unless I am very much mistaken the Dunstall spine race frame was designed and made by Eddie Robinson as he also made Dunstall’s 810 barrels, twin disc brakes, other 4ls drum brakes e.t.c.

http://motorbike-search-engine.co.uk/cl ... norton.php

The spine frame in photo appears to have no provision for carrying oil, so is it for a 2 stroke :?:

Hi Bernard

Thank you for that link. I have not seen the bike since I took it to the Stafford show for the Norton Owners Club stand in 2004.
Beautiful bike & just so slim at the waist. Really a delight. My mate Rob owned it & Ray signed the tank at Mallory Park. I wonder if the National Motorcycle Museum left it there. Ray kept saying Rob thats my bike, thats my bike.

Great to see.

Chris

PS by the way at Stafford I met an Italian man who said he owned the Monza record breaker. He was incenced that my board mentioned the history of the spine frame. (although we did not claim it to be the bike) The bike was buikt from spares & the spine frame was not a one off. Witness to this was beeing introduced to a guy who raced one with the CRMC, this was probably closer to the original Pickrell bike.

Chris

There are both simiarities and disimilarities between your frame and that of Kim Newcombe's '73 Konig solo, but my feeling is that whoever made your frame had seen the Konig, or vice versa. The first site has this, check the both, the second has a picture good enough to see similarities.

'The chassis was rather more conventional: Ceriani forks and drum brakes attached to a substantial steel spine frame with swinging arm and twin shocks. It all added up to a little more than 250lb dry; astonishingly light for a machine of its class.'

http://www.realclassic.co.uk/konig_500_ ... racer.html

http://www.ozebook.com/konig.htm

hello and thank you for the links yes there are similarities - but my frame does seem bit heavy duty
5" top tube but would seem good design for long flat engine type

ive no problem with putting a two stroke in it maybe a h1500 would be cheaper way of getting bike up and running again
but will make sure a commando engine doesn't fit first cheers dave

davysprocket said:

hello and thank you for the links yes there are similarities - but my frame does seem bit heavy duty
5" top tube but would seem good design for long flat engine type

ive no problem with putting a two stroke in it maybe a h1500 would be cheaper way of getting bike up and running again
but will make sure a commando engine doesn't fit first cheers dave

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Dave, you obviously know Chris, I am located about 40 miles from him just at the moment over in Worthing. Whereabouts are you?

H1 would be wild in that frame.

Steve

hi Steve sorry I'm new to this forum I havnt spoken to chris before
I grew up in longfield- kent near to seeleys works and also brands hatch used to buy bikes out of the pits in the 70s inc seeley h2r-- wish I still had it!
I now live in Elgin Scotland its nice up here but not the same amount of interesting bikes around

I have noticed pics of a one off dunstall h1 think built in 1970 with large tank / spine frame I may well go that way not as a replica of that bike, but one off of my own---- think it would be good
but this prob wrong place to be going down that road will try move this to other category----cheers dave

davysprocket said:

hi Steve sorry I'm new to this forum I havnt spoken to chris before
I grew up in longfield- kent near to seeleys works and also brands hatch used to buy bikes out of the pits in the 70s inc seeley h2r-- wish I still had it!
I now live in Elgin Scotland its nice up here but not the same amount of interesting bikes around

I have noticed pics of a one off dunstall h1 think built in 1970 with large tank / spine frame I may well go that way not as a replica of that bike, but one off of my own---- think it would be good
but this prob wrong place to be going down that road will try move this to other category----cheers dave

Click to expand...

Spent some time around Elgin in 2004, leading a NATO project to link flight simulators in 6 countries to the Tornado GR4 simulators at Lossiemouth, well it was fun for me, and it got us the NATO RTO Scientific Achievement Award!

Give my best to Gordon and McPhail :wink: