Damn it all to hell! Kickstarter problems.

My luck, that is. Got her ready, looking forward to getting her on the road yesterday. First damned kick, oops! Something 'broke'. I ave never opened the gearbox, so am hoping someone will tell me it's not that bad. As I understand it: the spring is fine (I think?) as the kickstart returns to the upright position. So, then as I understand it, the pawl, the pawl pin is probably shot. Also, the lower end gear of the layshat (I believe I read) might be toast.

So, OK, here's what I'm looking for: first, hopefully someone will have a really good idea as to the problem, as it feels like the pawl is 'click-click-clicking' without engaging when the kickstart is lightly moved by hand.

Secondly: never opened one up... just bought the bike last December, rode her maybe 8 times. But I am mechanical enough (I hope). Is it rather staright forward to pull the outer box cover and replace/repair this myself?

Third: if needing replacement parts, I do not want cheap crap, whether foreign OR domestic... so who has quality parts at a reasonable price? (again, I only had the bike running a week or two max before parking her for the winter, so 'don't know nothing!'

Appreciate any advice, pointers, suggestions, tips, etc. TIA, guys!

First of all open up that box :!:
You want the best replacement gearset, buy yourself a Quaife 5-speed cluster. Not cheap but very much worth it.
Good luck

That sounds like a rather expensive cure just for a kick-start problem!
Dave.

Open the box up. Really simple. Outer and Inner Covers. Check pawl and if bad replace. $20 from Old Britts. Go ride.

I'd replace the pawl, plunger spring and pin (with genuine parts) but as others have said, I would "open the box" first and have a look.

On rare occationd the 1st gear lay, where the kickshaft pawls ingage, can be worn. Just worth checking while you are in there.
Get into it, we're here for ya.

This brings back memories. The first bike I ever had was a Norton P11, No one taught me to first engage the kick start mechanism so the soft pawl doesn't get hammered and then follow through with the full kick. The pawl lasted about a week before I had my first introduction into Norton repair! If I could do it with my limited tools & NO skills as a teenager I'm sure you will find it easy. I let my friends ride my old bikes but I allways tell them "you can't treat it like a modern dirt bike kick starter". For me a parts book & good manual = less stress.

Thanks, guys. It's just one of those things. Never opened it up, so minor trepidations. However, once I start, I can generally sort it all out and get her closed back up again without having more than two or three bolts... maybe a couple of nuts, assorted washers left over. But hell, the bike probably didn't need them, anyways... :shock:

Oh! Hey, I see where there's been some sealer used to seal the outer casing. Any one in particular you guys would recommend, or can I just use some of this red gasket sealer I have laying about? What's on the bike now is a brownish-grey. Never seen that stuff before.

Gary said:

Oh! Hey, I see where there's been some sealer used to seal the outer casing. Any one in particular you guys would recommend, or can I just use some of this red gasket sealer I have laying about? What's on the bike now is a brownish-grey. Never seen that stuff before.

Click to expand...

I'd recommend that you use the proper inner and outer cover gaskets (with grease).

Very strongly agree with the last two posts!

There should be no reason to ever use liquid gasket anywhere near the gearbox, and the gaskets also maintain the as-designed clearances between the casings.

If you're unsure as to your gearbox's history, search this forum for 'Layshaft Bearing'. If you weren't already aware, it's a critical weakness of the standard box, with potentially catastrophic results.

Quaife box? - yep - I'd like one too - who wouldn't!!??

Gary said:

Thanks, guys. It's just one of those things. Never opened it up, so minor trepidations. However, once I start, I can generally sort it all out and get her closed back up again without having more than two or three bolts... maybe a couple of nuts, assorted washers left over. But hell, the bike probably didn't need them, anyways... :shock:

Oh! Hey, I see where there's been some sealer used to seal the outer casing. Any one in particular you guys would recommend, or can I just use some of this red gasket sealer I have laying about? What's on the bike now is a brownish-grey. Never seen that stuff before.

Click to expand...

gearbox-teardown-with-plenty-pictures-t5434.html

There was also a recent thread on sealers. I use an Yamabond or equivalent, with a gasket.

Mick Hemmings doesn't seem to use any gasket sealer on anything except the crank cases, where there is no gasket anyhow.

Dave
69S

DogT said:

Mick Hemmings doesn't seem to use any gasket sealer on anything except the crank cases, where there is no gasket anyhow.

Dave
69S

Click to expand...

I'm "new skool"!

Actually, some of you guys are so knowledgeable, that you forget how to think like a novice, such as I am. Meaning, quite a few replies are meaningless, as they're written as though I should JUST KNOW what the writer is thinking. Sorry, guys... I'm not that smart.

As for the sealer... yes, of course I'll always use the gasket. Currently have no clue if there is one used, or not. Again, haven't broke her open yet. As for the Quaife (sp?) thingamabob... I don't have the faintest clue. Did I mention I bought the bike only about a week before putting her up for winter? Sorry, but it's all new to me.

I shall search for catastrophic laygear issues, but if someone wants to give me a brief note on it here, I'd appreciate it. I'll also check out the shots Dave provided in what appears to be a link.

My very much appreciated thanks, again, to all of you guys.

Do search "layshaft bearing" here on the forum.

Once you have the inner cover off it's pretty easy to pull the gears and take a look at the layshaft bearing. If you see a ball bearing, then you need to read the tiny type on the outer race and let us know what it says. If you see a roller bearing, then put it back together and you're good to go.

Gary said:

As for the Quaife (sp?) thingamabob... I don't have the faintest clue.

Click to expand...

Quaife Engineering manufactures specialist high performance gearboxes and parts: http://www.quaife.co.uk/ Expensive, so only worth considering if you are a racer type or at least deadly serious about your Norton, as a Quaife gear set would probably cost you more to buy than the bike did.

Gary, just for information, it should never be necessary to use sealer with a gasket, it's either or, not both!
Having said that there are times, eg where the joint faces are distorted or damaged where it might be necessary.
Just a smear of grease or oil on paper gaskets helps them seal. Good luck with the gearbox and the bike in general.
Dave.

DogT said:

Mick Hemmings doesn't seem to use any gasket sealer on anything except the crank cases, where there is no gasket anyhow.

Dave
69S

Click to expand...

Also cylinder base on some 850s...no gasket here either

Does the Quaife 5-speed retain the kickstarter?

Gary,
The gearbox is no secret. It is very straight forward if you take care to do some studies on it. Check out the OldBrits site, they have a complete gearbox teardown and rebuild. It is a good thing to understand how your gearbox works. Swooshdave also has a thread that has a lot of good info on it. Your problem is most likely in the outer cover which is not a big issue. Take the outer cover off and there will be a lot of small parts. Again look at the oldbrits site or your workshop manual which is available on line and checkout the outer cover parts. If that doesn't solve the problem, take off the inner cover and then you will have to make some decisions as to whether you want to pull the gears out and inspect the layshaft bearing or not. If I were you, I would for safety's sake. You should read the layshaft thread. Now it gets a bit complicated, but not impossible. Believe me if I can do it, you can. Trouble is if you really want to work on the gearbox to a fine degree, you should pull the gearbox out and that involves getting the motor away from the cradle so the gearbox can be removed. Another issue.

Again, take the outer cover off and see if you can find anything wrong, if not report back and we can help. I'm sure there is a local Norton enthusiast that would be glad to help. If you were in VA, I would.

Dave
69S