Cured my hard starting V34

Diablouph · Dec 26, 2012

I have had hard starting with my V34 since I installed it. I have to beat the bike to death to get it started when it’s cold. Then, after about 15 seconds of running, you can almost look at it and it will start.

I finally found a little “trick” that gets it started on first or second kick every time. With fuel on, ignition off, I push down the choke (which we all know isn’t really a choke), and push thru twice, stopping around TDC second time. Then I reach down and pull up the choke lever just a little bit, just past the detent. Ignition on, healthy kick, joy every time.

Don’t ask me how or why it works, but it does for me.

Merry Christmas, and good riding.

goo · Dec 26, 2012

i'm thinking each norton has it's own personality quirks and your fix probably only applies to your bike.

anyway, what exactly is the 'choke' for?

mine has little or no effect on starting and only sometimes affects idle speed when warm.

thx,
goo

OldBalz · Dec 26, 2012

Diablouph said:
I have had hard starting with my V34 since I installed it. I have to beat the bike to death to get it started when it’s cold. Then, after about 15 seconds of running, you can almost look at it and it will start.

I finally found a little “trick” that gets it started on first or second kick every time. With fuel on, ignition off, I push down the choke (which we all know isn’t really a choke), and push thru twice, stopping around TDC second time. Then I reach down and pull up the choke lever just a little bit, just past the detent. Ignition on, healthy kick, joy every time.

Don’t ask me how or why it works, but it does for me.

Merry Christmas, and good riding.

I have a VM36 on my Commando and the cold start procedure is almost exactly the same as yours.....Choke lever down...two kicks with ignition off...turn key on and usually 1-2 kicks and it's running at a fast 1,900 rpm idle. I don't open the throttle at all during this process until after the choke is off.

I believe that the two kick procdeure with the key off allows the fuel to be drawn through the starting/enrichener circuit and then the key can be switched on but I don't fiddle with the choke lever at all until it starts and warms up for a few secomds.

Works for me.

grandpaul · Dec 26, 2012

Funny how the true "choke" (air slide) is called an 'enricher', and the true "enricher" (plunger lever) is called a 'choke'...

Bottom line, for ease of starting you just want an extra charge of fuel into the cylinder before introducing the spark.

Five ways to do it:

1. fuel-strong low speed mixture setting(s)
2. airstream choke, resulting in over-rich mixture
3. enriched starting stream via plunger
4. "tickling" of inlet float resulting in over-full float bowl
5. Tweaking of throttle (partially raising slide) during kick

Mark · Dec 26, 2012

OldBalz said:
I have a VM36 on my Commando and the cold start procedure is almost exactly the same as yours.....Choke lever down...two kicks with ignition off...turn key on and usually 1-2 kicks and it's running at a fast 1,900 rpm idle. I don't open the throttle at all during this process until after the choke is off.

I believe that the two kick procdeure with the key off allows the fuel to be drawn through the starting/enrichener circuit and then the key can be switched on but I don't fiddle with the choke lever at all until it starts and warms up for a few secomds.

That procedure is Exactly the same for me. Works every time.

OldBalz · Dec 26, 2012

Mark said:
OldBalz said:

I have a VM36 on my Commando and the cold start procedure is almost exactly the same as yours.....Choke lever down...two kicks with ignition off...turn key on and usually 1-2 kicks and it's running at a fast 1,900 rpm idle. I don't open the throttle at all during this process until after the choke is off.

I believe that the two kick procdeure with the key off allows the fuel to be drawn through the starting/enrichener circuit and then the key can be switched on but I don't fiddle with the choke lever at all until it starts and warms up for a few secomds.

Click to expand...

That procedure is Exactly the same for me. Works every time.

Well....I certainly didn't figure this out all on my own. The current President of the Michigan Norton Owners Club, Michel Litalien who has a lot of Norton experience with Mikuni carbs, told me about it and I've used it with good success.

grandpaul · Dec 26, 2012

grandpaul said:
Funny how the true "choke" (air slide) is called an 'enricher', and the true "enricher" (plunger lever) is called a 'choke'...

Bottom line, for ease of starting you just want an extra charge of fuel into the cylinder before introducing the spark.

Five ways to do it:

1. fuel-strong low speed mixture setting(s)
2. airstream choke, resulting in over-rich mixture
3. enriched starting stream via plunger
4. "tickling" of inlet float resulting in over-full float bowl
5. Tweaking of throttle (partially raising slide) during kick

Funny thing is, two apparently identical bikes will respond better to two different techniques. It has to be in the wear of the moving parts, if all other settings are equal. Slide needles and thier respective needle jets should always be replaced in matched pairs. Slides and thier respective bores should always be replaced and/or refurbished as exactly equally in pairs as possible

Diablouph · Dec 26, 2012

What I don't understand is why I have problems with a "full choke", but just moving the lever back up slightly makes all the difference.

grandpaul · Dec 26, 2012

Not intimately familiar with the innards of the VM34, but perhaps it is PARTALLY opening/closing a certain passageway, where FULLY open/closed is too much.

Diablouph · Dec 26, 2012

From what I can see, most Norton owners are not familiar with the workings of the Mikuni. They seem to just bolt them on and expect them to work. Unlike a real "choke", the starter circuit seems to be "on" or "off". I guess I have an "almost on" carb.

concours · Dec 26, 2012

Puzzling, really. I've been tweaking Mikuni's for 41 years, (NOT on Nortons, but suck, squeeze, bang, blow is rather standard) the enrichener always performs as expected, unless something has failed. After reading the above, it strikes me as way too much juice, with two pull throughs. What happens when you put the enrichener on, make the ignition live and begin kicking, no switch off pull throughs? I'd expect a second kick fire, maybe first kick. What has been observed?

Diablouph · Dec 26, 2012

What has been observed (with no kick through as my leg is kicking, not pulling) is my leg flailing at the bike, the bike looking at me with a look of disgust, and when tired, I rest. Sooner or later she fires, slow at first and if she stays lit for about 15 seconds, she is golden. Maybe, when she is good and cold again, I'll try one (1) kick through, then, if that doesn't work, none.

The comment about too much juice seems logical, but does not explain why I have to lift the "choke" lever a little. Am I cutting down on the fuel draw as I lift the lever?

concours · Dec 26, 2012

Diablouph said:
What has been observed (with no kick through as my leg is kicking, not pulling) is my leg flailing at the bike, the bike looking at me with a look of disgust, and when tired, I rest. Sooner or later she fires, slow at first and if she stays lit for about 15 seconds, she is golden. Maybe, when she is good and cold again, I'll try one (1) kick through, then, if that doesn't work, none.

The comment about too much juice seems logical, but does not explain why I have to lift the "choke" lever a little. Am I cutting down on the fuel draw as I lift the lever?

"lift" the lever, closes the plunger. Lifting it a little, closes it a little, reducing the enrichening effect, IF it has a two stage enrichener. Not sure if they are so equipped. Does the lever have a detent function built into it? A MID position?

Diablouph · Dec 26, 2012

Does the lever have a detent function built into it? A MID position?

I don't feel one, only full on, full off. I just lift it about 1/8th of the way up. At 1/4, I usually can get a light but not good idle, she wants to die.

I should let sleeping dogs lay, but I'm curious. I don't dread starting my bike anymore.

Hobot · Dec 26, 2012

The enricher is like a tiny carb and if the lever moving the plunger is mounted stiff enough then its not that hard to adj its richening effect between full on or off. I've done that a lot in cold weather with Peel's VM34 that was cable activated so cable and lever friction made it easy to do. Start full enriched with is pretty cabron-ie rich but too cold to hands off so bumped back on enricher till ran for warm up period. Mostly forget to turn it full off till i off rolling and notice misfire or poor response, duh, so turn it off.

RoadScholar · Dec 27, 2012

grandpaul said:
[quote="grandpaul"
Funny thing is, two apparently identical bikes will respond better to two different techniques. It has to be in the wear of the moving parts, if all other settings are equal. Slide needles and thier respective needle jets should always be replaced in matched pairs. Slides and thier respective bores should always be replaced and/or refurbished as exactly equally in pairs as possible

I wonder if two riders swapped motorcycles and used their individual starting techniques if the different bikes would respond the way their personal rides do??

Bill.

gory · Dec 27, 2012

RoadScholar said:
I wonder if two riders swapped motorcycles and used their individual starting techniques if the different bikes would respond the way their personal rides do??

Bill.

now that's an interesting question - would be very interesing to find an answer.

Hobot · Dec 27, 2012

The 750's Wes and I ride start with same technique when we kick off the others, usually Wes kicking mine as he arrives at my place and I'm still in moccasins after some work on bike just prior. What varies most varies in concert with the length of time since last start. What also varies is the state of mind or leg energy of each rider with some fault preventing easy starting, so we've switch hit while trying various things to get going again away from home. A proper Commando should start 1 or 2nd kick for everyone. Wes has Miki carb and mine has tick-lest Amals so cold starts require some gas smell on mine more than Wes's.

donmeek · Dec 27, 2012

another interesting thread. i suppose everyone wonders at some time if something is not quite right with their bike because of the certain drills they go through to keep things happy. starting drill for my mk111 mikuni single when cold: turn gas on, 2 healthy thru kicks,turn on ignition,choke on. 1 kick and she fires. leave choke on until starts to run rough, choke off and away we go. when warm, no choke ,ever, 1 kick. been doing it that way for a long, long time

drones76 · Dec 27, 2012

donmeek said:
another interesting thread. i suppose everyone wonders at some time if something is not quite right with their bike because of the certain drills they go through to keep things happy. starting drill for my mk111 mikuni single when cold: turn gas on, 2 healthy thru kicks,turn on ignition,choke on. 1 kick and she fires. leave choke on until starts to run rough, choke off and away we go. when warm, no choke ,ever, 1 kick. been doing it that way for a long, long time

'74 MKIIA with a single Mikuni 34. Same exact procedure except I hold the throttle about 1/4 open on the thru kick (I only do a single thru kick). After about 30-45 seconds, I take the choke off and it idles at about 900-1k.

Cured my hard starting V34

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