Comparison of H2 with Commando 850

@ J.A.W. and Matt Spencer . I'm interested in the debate you have going comparing those two bikes. I never believed in the Commando 850 until I owned my Seeley. A friend used to work for a dealer (S.R Evans) in Melbourne, and did pre-delivery checks on both bikes quite regularly. He said that in standard form, there is not much between them. He and his fellow workers used to take them down the Richmond Boulevard and do really horrible things to them. He was racing at the time, so he would never hang about. The H2 has much more tuning potential than an 850 commando. Nobody would ever use a commando engine in a speedway sidecar race against a tuned H2 Kawasaki. These days we know too much about two strokes. My brother owns two almost identical speedway Kawasaki sidecars , an H1, and an H2, both on methanol. You don't need the H2, the H1 is fast enough to win every race he ever enters . The H2 is dangerous - at this mee ting at Gillman in South Australia, it jumped three metres into the back of a turbocharged Honda CB750, when it s uddenly came on song. It shot my brother and his passenger over the front then jumped them both. It ended up with four bends in the sidecar, and even the back wheel was bent. He has vetoed me from uploading the crash video, but this was taken at the same meeting, so you can see what the 750 H2 is like:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HYnXEQ0Aw1I

J.A.W If you've got plenty of money, my brother would sell you the H2 sidecar, but I will tell you right now that you don't want it. You'd scare youself shitless with it. A commando is really tame by comparison.

I thought Matt was a Trumpet guy who stole J.A.W's high school sweetheart. Or was it that J.A.W is the Kawacki guy who stole Matt's first love?

I've owned a lot of Triumphs during my lifetime, none has ever been as good as my Seeley Commando 850. I never raced a 650, only my short stroke 500. Every 650 Triumph that has been used in historic racing in Victoria except one, has blown up. The exception is the one owned by my friend, who tuned it for torque, and never revs it over 6,300 rpm. It is a very fast bike, I once blew a fully developed H2 to the weeds with it, simply under acceleration. A fully developed H2 in the right frame is scarily fast, especially if the ports are right , and the heads reshaped, and the good chambers attached. These days you can buy decent ignition systems for them - the most important factor. I would never try to road race one on methanol though. It could be come very expensive in many ways. I know how to do that stuff, however I don't usually go there - who needs the anxiety ? I recently sold a really good TZ350G to buy the six speed box for my Seeley - a much better way to go.

J.A.W. I still know where there are two H2R replicas, if you are interested in learning how to cope with butterflies in the tummy. One has actually got the aircooled clutch, the other has more shine.

Def`interested in a discussion, Aco. I have quite a few RZ bits inc topends that could go on your Egli special, unless you might consider a price for it,& I could do a part exchange on a road going RD/LC chassis fiitted for H-series triples if interested, to keep your adrenaline going day to day for a pick-me-up...

Snorton 74, you old romantic you, quite the imagination you`ve got there... Me & Matt have known each other since high school, true. But since he failed to get his 1st Suzuki functional he has had a ummm... mental block...esp `bout 2-strokes, which got to him even more severely when he could not get his Commando sorted either, but I do give him full credit for fettling a very capable pre-unit Bonneville, easily the fastest Triumph of all - out of the bunch we used to hang with, back in the day..

As they say . . . sorry chaps . its a 750 .



Combat .

EARTHQUAKE ! was one here in the war . 200 foot gullies . the whole landscape shifted .What the video doesnt show is the ripples and bumps / jumps
in the chip seal , in places.

A very differant enviroment to a smooth rolled good cambered race track . Notably the ' Classic ' circuits , LeMan , Spa etc WERE undulateing
but progresively ' improved ' by opening out / reduceing gradiants . Like the main road North now.No fun at all unless youre going twice as fast .

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CjPPbtOHpRI

please note. the road is CLOSED here .

So , a ability to deal with unpredictable ituations , on the road , was what any decent British machine was adept at .
ather than wobbling & weaveing
like a japper . 8)

NOW , this is more like it ! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bax6oH6B ... sults_main
of course , if he was on a kawasaki , he would have to STOP , turn it , then GO again . trying not to wobble , of course .

Depends WHERE you want to get your thrills . :shock: and wether you value youre neck , of course . Now , all we need to see both of
is a pre unit 650 Tuned , in the Norton , on say 30 % Nitro . Should smoke a bit to keep the two stroke chaps happy . Theyll probly try
and say its one ! . :x

you notice the no 2 close up on the kwacker in the corners on your Vid . ! RIDEABILITY . Now , if there NO Straights , the poor we Hondas are undone .

LATER 'We ' will explain how the F-750 Regulations were corrupted :shock: :wink: . A decadant capitalist plot . Up the Unions , Up the Workers Liberation Army .
Man your Cossaks & Dneipers .& Jupiter 350s . . . all you Two stroke Fans .

P.S. Dont mention the F U E L C O N S U M P T I O N .

NOW , is THIS a waste of a good Rickman Frame , or does he just not know how to put a good Norton 850 together . :?



H2 with Trainer Wheels . :shock:

Kawaski Rider forced to give up BEER ; to pay for New Engine .



crikey , you think the Commano types are a worry , this lot takes the cake . talk about a saga . 35 pages .
http://triplescanada.proboards.com/inde ... hread=1475

Another BRILLIANT Idea . :wink:



definately Not a ' T.T. bike , unless thats a elaborate collapseable Sump Guard . :? :?:

magbe if he thinks he has to build one of these , and He'll go away .
And give me That Camshaft. Rather than HITTING things with it .

Matt, Matt, Matt, nice pix , as usual....but sadly...also...as usual...commentary lacks...ah...validity..
Since you never actually gave one stick in under any circumstances, here is a little reminder of how its done..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VkMEOgJK ... re=related & http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i9vs-hn6 ... re=related
As for affordability, guess how much for a super-trick toroidal H2 head? & those pipes too, looking a bit more complex than a pair of bent tubes, but not as pricey as some
Commando repros...

Just because im not retarded enough to ram cars in suberbia , in fact im carefull not to .Doesnt mean it isnt opened up , out in the wilds , were the Kawaskis Weave & Wallow . :lol: 8) not that those old dogs can negotiate a corner on chip seal anyway , at that speed . They have enough difficulties with the straights .
From what I here .
Straight from the horses mouth .
Takes how many lanes at what speed was it . Nudge Wink .

First link dont work .

" guess how much for a super-trick toroidal H2 head? "

you sure thats toroidal ? does it speak seven languages . ? :?

http://www.veengle.com/s/expansion%20chamber.html

Why Bother . :?:

talk about a racket . Now , a C.C.M. 608 , That SOUNDS like Something . . .

So Matt, your crashing was all like, low speed suburban hitting curbs, missing apexes huh, & since you admit you never had the guts to even experience what the rider mastery part of roadholding means...Well, including the fact that you haven`t done any bike miles in so long, & dont ride anymore anyhow...you opinion is of little value.

what the rider mastery part of roadholding means :?: BOUNCING of CARS . :?: Pretty funny ideas , some people .
That u at Mansfield on the H2 runnig wide .
All Stuff Bluster , , . or is that piss & Vinegar . Less insubordination from the lower decks , please .

Yes , I`d bounce you too, if faced with your mobile chicane routine - naturally that would be your standard weak response when being asked to face reality...That bare H2 chassis, have a look at the swingarm support framework, compare it to a pre-unit Bonneville -& of course, note: the Triumph only had to handle a fraction of the H2's torque output..

H2



Commando



Triumph . Fronts British steel casting . had to settle for a chrome one /


Unit trriump



O.i.F. Tri.

crikey , theyre all bleedy terrible , even this thing looks cheap & nasty .


they call it a Bonneville anyway .

The S/A mount only gets dramatic over 100 mph if you dont back of and make allowances for grounding or bottoming, two up
with someone cpeable of lofting hay bales . Id tend to keep the Eng/ G box plates tight , as its all tied in .

Now , this is what you need .

velocette 350 geoff dukes special



bits scraps and allsorts a old british biker pun
very short on words long on pictures or images as some like to call them , i guess its for the best as i have a caustic sense of wit , and enjoy a brutal joke at others expense , crude puns are another forte of mine

http://daveinnola-bsabitsscrapsandallso ... ecial.html

Check out the speedway outfit , for a Test ride . :wink:

The ' dynamics ' actually help you pick the traction , at speed . on the gravle . on tweeks minimally on humps on tarmack. Comparable to Z1 . !

the Triumph only had to handle a fraction of the H2's torque output..

WHOS KAWASKI ? :shock: :mrgreen: The general integredy of the overall unit , yes well , got some torsiona; figures on the S/As ,

Let alone the way the Kawa ties into the rear frame / mounts , doesnt do anything for anything , so its all at sea . as it were .

Non integrated , let alone harmonious . :shock: Seen how the Unit Tri 650s tie togerther back there . Homogenous . Thou a bit stiff
for unsealed at speed , and shroter wheelbase gets it squirillyer . So theres more to it than the layman appreciates .
Up at race speeds the Unit 650 swing arm is stable , & the mounts .

then theres the Cost of Ear Plugs .

That's some Jedi mind trick shit there aco! Don't know if this thread can hold all of the feeding frenzies though.

Got that C.W. pre-unit Bonneville roadtest handy Matt? Compute the probable torque output from its S.S. 1/4 mile time & weight.You do know the formula...right.
Compare with this H2 graph... http://kawtriple.com/mraxl/articles/197 ... bikes2.htm
Hard cheese old man.. Oh & find/post us a pic of that pre-unit Triumph swingarm en-mount, so we can all have a laugh...