Colorado Norton Works Brakes Installed

montelatici · Nov 15, 2009

I bit the bullet and bought the CNW front and rear brake systems for my Mark III. I installed both brakes over two weekends. The rear was relatively easy. The rear master cylinder takes a bit to prime and pump but it can be done without a hydraulic pump. It is a direct bolt on affair for the disk, the caliper and the master cylinder.

The front presented more problems and I needed a hydraulic pump to prime the master cylinder, just squeezing the brake won't do it. It has to do with the design of the master cylinder. The nice thing is that once you get a little hydraulic pressure, the unit is self bleeding and gets stronger and stronger as you use it.

I had my hand held by the owner of CNW (Matt Ranbow) as I did the installation. He responded to questions on Sundays!

I rode the bike for about 100 miles today and the front brake is magnificent. The Brembo caliper, disk and master cylinder are more than is needed for a Commando. I actually did a "stoppie", with my Norton! The rear is very strong, if I actually used my rear brake it would be too strong.

Here is the front:

Here is the rear:

Here is the front master cylinder:

montelatici · Nov 15, 2009

http://s931.photobucket.com/albums/ad15 ... master.jpg

Front master cylinder

montelatici · Nov 15, 2009

Front brake:

http://s931.photobucket.com/albums/ad15 ... tBrake.jpg

montelatici · Nov 15, 2009

Rear brake:

http://s931.photobucket.com/albums/ad15 ... rbrake.jpg

montelatici · Nov 15, 2009

Oh, some important points:

1. With a Mark III there is no need to order the starter switch. Once you remove the Mark III front master cylinder, there is room for the new master cylinder. No need to change any electrical connections except the brake switch wires which is a simple splice.

2. If you keep the caliper on the same side as stock on a Mark III, there is no need to order the special fender stay they sell.

RennieK · Nov 15, 2009

Congratulations on your upgrade and thanks for the report. Money well spent.

FYI - On your 1st post the images show up on my browser as question marks but if I click them they open just fine.

swooshdave · Nov 15, 2009

montelatici said:
I bit the bullet and bought the CNW front and rear brake systems for my Mark III. I installed both brakes over two weekends. The rear was relatively easy. The rear master cylinder takes a bit to prime and pump but it can be done without a hydraulic pump. It is a direct bolt on affair for the disk, the caliper and the master cylinder.

The front presented more problems and I needed a hydraulic pump to prime the master cylinder, just squeezing the brake won't do it. It has to do with the design of the master cylinder. The nice thing is that once you get a little hydraulic pressure, the unit is self bleeding and gets stronger and stronger as you use it.

I had my hand held by the owner of CNW (Matt Ranbow) as I did the installation. He responded to questions on Sundays!

I rode the bike for about 100 miles today and the front brake is magnificent. The Brembo caliper, disk and master cylinder are more than is needed for a Commando. I actually did a "stoppie", with my Norton! The rear is very strong, if I actually used my rear brake it would be too strong.

Here is the front:

Here is the rear:

Here is the front master cylinder:

]

Coco · Nov 16, 2009

montelatici said:
I had my hand held by the owner of CNW (Matt Ranbow) as I did the installation. He responded to questions on Sundays!

Matt definitely wins an award for customer service. Best after sale service I have ever had by anyone or any company bar none. I owe him many many beers for the help hes given me. If I see him at Lumby, the beer assault is on!

Flo · Nov 16, 2009

I find it irritating that Britain, the home of the Commando can't produce a braking system as good as that one.
Wonder if it can be used with the standard master cylinder?

swooshdave · Nov 16, 2009

Flo said:
I find it irritating that Britain, the home of the Commando can't produce a braking system as good as that one.
Wonder if it can be used with the standard master cylinder?

Standard sleeved one.

Not sure why that other part irritates you.

montelatici · Nov 16, 2009

I don't know if you could use the calipers with the standard master cylinder. The system is designed to use DOT 5 fluid so I suspect the Brembo calipers would probably not like DOT 3 or 4 fluid.

JimC · Nov 16, 2009

Keep in mind, the ratio of caliper to master cylinder bore size is the single most important ingredient of ANY braking system. The optimum ratio being 27:1. I'm not certain, but I think the stock Norton master cylinder is way too large for the Brembo caliper CNW uses. The reason the stock Norton disc brake performs so poorly is the ratio of caliper to master cylinder is too small. If you use this chart and size for a 27:1 ratio you will have a very good brake, regardless of the components you use. Here again, you get what you pay for, with the CNW caliper, master cylinder and rotor being the best setup.

Rich_j · Nov 16, 2009

The 27:1 is recommended for a two piston opposed caliper, the Brembo is 4 piston

Corona850 · Nov 16, 2009

montelatici said:
I don't know if you could use the calipers with the standard master cylinder. The system is designed to use DOT 5 fluid so I suspect the Brembo calipers would probably not like DOT 3 or 4 fluid.

I have a Brembo calliper (ex Ducati) on mine using DOT 3. Works fine. In fact, the recommendation on the Brembo drawing is for DOT-4 (see website linked below).

I am not an expert. It is my understanding that the Brembo calliper should be installed with the smaller (30mm) cylinder leading and the larger (34mm) cylinder trailing. See the drawing at this site (note rotation direction arrow):

http://kvickmc.se/brembo-mckatalog/cali ... 30-34F.pdf

and/or ...

http://kvickmc.se/brembo-mckatalog/cali ... 30-34C.pdf

It looks like putting the Brembo calliper in the same place as the old Lockheed on a Mk-III mounts it backwards.

montelatici · Nov 16, 2009

"It looks like putting the Brembo calliper in the same place as the old Lockheed on a Mk-III mounts it backwards."

Matt felt it was ok to mount it that way and it works fine, more power than is needed actually. Plus, I really wanted to keep it similar to the original set up with the rear disc on the right hand side and the front disk on the left hand side. It gives it a sort of visual balance when you are used to it that way and the fender stay that is needed to mount the front on the right side is not that attractive in my opinion.

Ron L · Nov 16, 2009

montelatici said:
I don't know if you could use the calipers with the standard master cylinder. The system is designed to use DOT 5 fluid so I suspect the Brembo calipers would probably not like DOT 3 or 4 fluid.

Actually, Brembo does NOT recommend DOT 5 fluid stating only DOT 3 or DOT 4 should be used.

I have a sleeved 13 mm Norton front master on one bike and a 13 mm Magura on the other. Both work well with the P3034 Brembo caliper.

I swapped the forks side for side on my Mk3 for the reasons Corona850 pointed out. A chrome version of the fender Matt sells is available for less than $60 and needs only to be re-drilled. I have the opposite opinion and have always despised the left side brake as it looked upside down and lumpy to me. To each his own.

http://i93.photobucket.com/albums/l71/r ... G_4458.jpg

I also used a new Brembo rear disc rotor and twin piston caliper and adapted the Brembo rear master that accompanies it. This is the exact same combination Ducati uses on most all of their sportbikes. For the rear master on the Mk3 it took a simple adaptor made from 1/4" aluminum plate. For my Mk2 with Mk3 swingarm and right side shift it took a little more fabrication, but even I could do it with a cheap bandsaw, drill press, files and air grinder with 3M roto-lok disc.
http://i93.photobucket.com/albums/l71/r ... G_5448.jpg

http://i93.photobucket.com/albums/l71/r ... G_5446.jpg

montelatici · Nov 16, 2009

Well, good for you. Not being as talented as you are, I decided to go with CNW''s front and rear offerings, which based on feedback from others, were said to be well worth the price. Again, to each his own.

montelatici · Nov 16, 2009

By the way, CNW requires the use of DOT 5 for their brake systems, perhaps you know more than they do.

Ron L · Nov 17, 2009

Sorry, I didn't mean to upset you, I just wanted to show some alternatives. My point was I don't have any fabricating skills, but a reaonably good looking and equally effective system can be obtained for those of us that can't afford CNW prices. Simply an alternative.

As far as knowing more than Matt, I'm sure I don't, but that was not my intent either. Just pointing out that the manufacturer of the equipment does not recommend silicone brake fluid in their product. You can choose to believe who you will.

I do agree with Matt that reversing the caliper still provides an effective brake, especially compared to stock and on a bike as light as a Norton. I will maintain that there is at least a small amount of effectiveness lost.

I have no doubt that each of CNW's offerings are well thought out and executed. But they are not the only choices.

As to the appearance of the left vs right caliper, I think we both agree it is simply personal taste.

montelatici · Nov 17, 2009

"Sorry, I didn't mean to upset you, I just wanted to show some alternatives. My point was I don't have any fabricating skills, but a reaonably good looking and equally effective system can be obtained for those of us that can't afford CNW prices. Simply an alternative."

Understood.

"As far as knowing more than Matt, I'm sure I don't, but that was not my intent either. Just pointing out that the manufacturer of the equipment does not recommend silicone brake fluid in their product. You can choose to believe who you will."

There must be a reason why CNW instructs the installer to fill both MCs with DOT 5 fluid (they could easily have said to use DOT 4). I can't imagine why they would recommend something that would harm the product they are selling. I might ask Matt to comment.

"I do agree with Matt that reversing the caliper still provides an effective brake, especially compared to stock and on a bike as light as a Norton. I will maintain that there is at least a small amount of effectiveness lost."

Agreed.

"I have no doubt that each of CNW's offerings are well thought out and executed. But they are not the only choices."

I looked at the other choices for the front, that were bolt-on without additional mods and found that once you added up the cost of everything needed there was not a huge difference in price. For the rear, frankly, I did not see anything purely "bolt-on" as the CNW system, nor that offered a replacement rear MC that is form/fit /function the same as the stock unit.

"As to the appearance of the left vs right caliper, I think we both agree it is simply personal taste."

Yes, agreed.

Colorado Norton Works Brakes Installed

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