Boyer micro digital ignition

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blacklav

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I bought a new super duper Boyer micro digital ignition about 8 months ago. Still cannot get it to work.
My commando has a mk4 boyer fitted and it runs ok. I bought the new one as its supposed to be better and should improve the idle (smoother).
On fitting it kicked back and I had to retard it 7 degrees before it started, then it was misfiring above 1500rpm and on increasing the revs would backfire and stop. After cleaning carbs and checking wiring it continued so I sent it back.
Boyer have to date replaced the unit 4 times .
Now, I have bypassed the ignition switch to rule that out. Disconnected the boyer powerbox as instructed by boyer ( via the black wire). Wired the Boyer micro digital ignition direct to the battery , red and black and its still the same.
After looking at the powerbox its a PBox00108 model. On reading up about this model it states, " if your Norton has a warning light simulator it must not be used with the powerbox, remove it ". I wondered why as the warning light was on my bike when I got it with the powerbox fitted and everything works fine with old mk4 ignition unit.
Boyer told me to disconnect it so I removed the white/brown and the green/yellow wire feed from the alternator. Still wont run right.

Just had a reply from boyer saying to strobe it as it will be very retarded if you don't.( would this cause the backfiring in the exhaust ) When I first fitted it using the original pickup plate set to mk4`s timing it kicked back and I had to retard it 7 degrees before it started. They also say the charging light simulator can lock the powerbox and discharge the battery. Never had a flat battery problem.
Any one out there with a PBox00108 running the micro digital ignition, please get in touch.
chri s r
 
Forgot to mention its a 74 mk11a . All earths correct, changed the coils for new ones plus HT leads.
 
Just had a reply from boyer saying to strobe it as it will be very retarded if you don't
Click to expand...

unless there are specific instructions from Boyer recommending static timing I don't see how you can get it timed right without a strobe light, do you have one?
 
Installing the digital ignition will require advancing the pickup several degrees. This is because the ignition senses the zero crossing point instead of looking for a crossover voltage on the rising slope.

You do need to set the timing with a strode. Jim

blacklav said:
I bought a new super duper Boyer micro digital ignition about 8 months ago. Still cannot get it to work.
My commando has a mk4 boyer fitted and it runs ok. I bought the new one as its supposed to be better and should improve the idle (smoother).
On fitting it kicked back and I had to retard it 7 degrees before it started, then it was misfiring above 1500rpm and on increasing the revs would backfire and stop. After cleaning carbs and checking wiring it continued so I sent it back.
Boyer have to date replaced the unit 4 times .
Now, I have bypassed the ignition switch to rule that out. Disconnected the boyer powerbox as instructed by boyer ( via the black wire). Wired the Boyer micro digital ignition direct to the battery , red and black and its still the same.
After looking at the powerbox its a PBox00108 model. On reading up about this model it states, " if your Norton has a warning light simulator it must not be used with the powerbox, remove it ". I wondered why as the warning light was on my bike when I got it with the powerbox fitted and everything works fine with old mk4 ignition unit.
Boyer told me to disconnect it so I removed the white/brown and the green/yellow wire feed from the alternator. Still wont run right.

Just had a reply from boyer saying to strobe it as it will be very retarded if you don't.( would this cause the backfiring in the exhaust ) When I first fitted it using the original pickup plate set to mk4`s timing it kicked back and I had to retard it 7 degrees before it started. They also say the charging light simulator can lock the powerbox and discharge the battery. Never had a flat battery problem.
Any one out there with a PBox00108 running the micro digital ignition, please get in touch.
chri s r
Click to expand...
 
BillT said:
Then I found somebody in Australia had worked up the advance curve on a Boyer, and now check my timing at idle or slightly above, though its not really necessary unless you change something on the bike.
http://www.nocnsw.org.au/technical/ignition-timing-for-commando-boyer
Click to expand...

The Micro Digital advance (green) is different to MkIII (blue).


commando-timing-advance-curves-compiled-t6451.html#p64203
rick in seattle said:
Boyer micro digital ignition
Click to expand...
 
Sorry, LAB, I didn't clarifyIi use the older model. which is pretty good in my book, (except for the occasional kick-back!)
 
blacklav said:
I bought a new super duper Boyer micro digital ignition about 8 months ago. Still cannot get it to work.
My commando has a mk4 boyer fitted and it runs ok. I bought the new one as its supposed to be better and should improve the idle (smoother).
chri s r
Click to expand...

Probably ought to send it back 8 more times...Ever occur to you that your 40+ year old wiring harness might be a bit vague? The Power Box is a decent alternative for power management in slightly more primitive systems, but won't, really, replace a good condition battery...and is really not compatible with a battery, more like a competitive situation; it was advertised as a battery replacement after all, maybe fit a second battery with a marine either/or switch?

Boyer supplies the MD systems with a red wire that they suggest you tie to the battery, they also say that your motorcycle may not quit when you turn off the key, they suggest, in that case, that you engage 1st gear and kill the engine by letting out the clutch...On page two they tell you that if you don't like the mechanical stop feature to disconnect the red wire, go figure? In my experience most people never get to page two; when I sell the MD systems, I cut out the red wire and have edited the instructions to remove the reference, problem solved.

Fit a battery, or go back to the points. The Tri-Spark is slightly easier to install and tune, but costs $120+ more, your Boyer is an excellent system, I suggest that you consider wiring it as a stand alone system with NEW wires, isolating it as much as possible from your old harness; if you have a new harness, I apologize for my assumption; I have seen way too many 40+ year old English motorcycles that have too many worn out parts owned by people shouldn't own them, none, of course, on this forum naturally...

Anyway, the issue is not with the Boyer, look someplace else, or get someone who knows the MD and the Norton to sort it for you and go on to worry about something else.
 
I dont see how I can strobe it when it won't rev above 1500without misfires.the harness is 5 years old. I set it up as Boyer's instructions which are the same for the mk4 so it should be about there.the other thing us it won't start without flooding the carbs and full choke evev when warm. if I open the choke it splutters and dies, yet it doesn't when I fit the mk4.new amal premiers all OK.
 
Are you using 5kOhm resistor plug caps or 'R' plugs (necessary for digital ignitions)?
 
RoadScholar said:
Boyer supplies the MD systems with a red wire that they suggest you tie to the battery,
Click to expand...

I don't think that applies to the Norton MD system. http://www.boyerbransden.com/pdf/KIT00084.pdf

The only Boyer MD system that I can think of which has a direct positive battery wire connection is a negative earth system for pre-'79 BMWs

RoadScholar said:
they also say that your motorcycle may not quit when you turn off the key, they suggest, in that case, that you engage 1st gear and kill the engine by letting out the clutch...
Click to expand...

The instructions I've seen has said to use an electrical load to cut the system such as operating the brake.

http://www.boyerbransden.com/pdf/KIT00086.pdf
NOTE
The standard Fig.2. installation (above) keeps the electrical loading on the ignition switch to a minimum to improve reliability.
We have found that some pre-79 BMW models, when wired this way, fail to stop running when the kill switch is operated. This is due to the very small current required to keep the electronics running in the ignition unit. To overcome this problem the brake light can be operated or the system can be wired as below for the ignition coil to also take all of it’s power from the standard ignition switch supply.....
Click to expand...
 
I don't have any personal experience of the Boyer MD system, but the core symptoms seem like it's retarded by more than a few degrees - whether it's due to setup or malfunction is not clear.
I would be inclined to check that the timing Mark on the rotor is correct: establish TDC and go from there - easier with a degree disc.
Another less scientific approach would be to progressively advance the ignition until you can get it running reliably enough to get a strobe on it, at least you'll be able to see if the Boyer is functioning correctly.
 
I fitted a Mk3 Boyer to a B44 and then changed to an MD keeping the bits inside the timing chamber unchanged, it was badly retarded and needed advancing by a fair amount with a final check using a strobe. Tickover is much improved with the idle stabilisation curve.
 
LAB. Yes I`m using 5Kohm resister caps but what are "R" plugs. I'm using Bosch B1 868`s the 3 pronged ones as recommended by someone on this site, before these I used NGK B9ES`s.
I`ll try to alter the timing and strobe it if it will keep running long enough.
Interesting graph there for the boyer md which shows it advanced at very low revs ( 0 to 500rpm ), this would explain the kickbacks and why I had to retard it to stop them.
chris r
 
blacklav said:
I'm using Bosch B1 868`s the 3 pronged ones as recommended by someone on this site,
Click to expand...

I can't find any information about Bosch B1 868 plugs?


blacklav said:
before these I used NGK B9ES`s.
Click to expand...


Why B9ES and not BP7ES? :?
 
Thanks for that LAB. I should have known.
I`ll report back next week on the outcome of the strobe.
If it fails I will be selling a new micro unit cheap. I've had enough of replacing and disconnecting things when the boyer system is virtually a plug and play unit.
chris r
 
The NGK B9ES`s were in it when I bought it and have always been ok, good colour etc. The bosch ones ive had in for about 2 years now, B1 868, that's what they say on the plugs side. I think I got them from Halfords as a direct replacement for the NGK`s
 
blacklav said:
The bosch ones ive had in for about 2 years now, B1 868, that's what they say on the plugs side.
Click to expand...

If that number is printed on the porcelain then I don't think it's the actual plug type which is likely to be stamped on the body, as I'm looking at a Bosch Super 4 plug that has R6 385 on the porcelain but the plug is a WR78.
 
I have a red box micro, and previously used the black box. they both work good for me.

BPR7ES... Just go buy a pair.

anyway,.. when you statically set up your ignition rotor and pick up on the timing side, you rotate the engine and look in the port in the primary side for the mark on the rotor so you can set the position of your points compartment's magnetic rotor. This is to mount your pick up plate and your magnetic rotor to fire close to it's required position. After that is set, you use the timing light to dial it in precisely, since it should run pretty well if it's statically set "close" to where it's suposed to eventually be positioned.

One of the problems is that people mistake the mark on the edge of the raised area where the rotor mark is, as the actually rotor mark, so their initial setting for the pick up rotor is way off because it's aligned to the wrong mark. Unscrew the inspection port plug over the rotor/stator and rotate the engine and view the rotor to make sure you are using the correct mark. It's a common error and easy to make because the viewing port is kind of small and the degree scale obscures a good deal of the rotor too.
 
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