blocking rocker oil feed

I've seen it mentioned a lot, but cant find any info on how. I'm assuming you just remove the banjo bolt at the timing cover and put a bolt in there to block it (5/16x22) when doing this, should i run the bike for a few minutes first to get some oil to the head? when i remove the bolt should i expect a mess of oil coming out? also how long is safe to run with no oil to the head, 5-10 minutes?

May we know the reason why you want to run the engine with the rocker feed disconnected?

" how long is safe to run with no oil to the head, 5-10 minutes? "

would you put it on U tube , so we know . :wink:

that there oils feeding down the pushrod tunnels ,
to the camshaft followers . Could be expensive .

Curious minds want to know.

L.A.B. said:

May we know the reason why you want to run the engine with the rocker feed disconnected?

Click to expand...

Trying to diagnose oil burning from the pipes. I saw many mentions on here to remove rocker oil feed and see if clears up to rule out leaks at the valves

kevbo82 said:

L.A.B. said:

May we know the reason why you want to run the engine with the rocker feed disconnected?

Click to expand...

Trying to diagnose oil burning from the pipes. I saw many mentions on here to remove rocker oil feed and see if clears up to rule out leaks at the valves

Click to expand...

L.A.B, I did not suggest this to him. Kev, sounds like a bad joke.

kevbo82 said:

L.A.B. said:

May we know the reason why you want to run the engine with the rocker feed disconnected?

Click to expand...

Trying to diagnose oil burning from the pipes. I saw many mentions on here to remove rocker oil feed and see if clears up to rule out leaks at the valves

Click to expand...

OK, but have you already checked the more obvious things that might lead to top-end over-oiling, such as inlet valve oil seals popped off the guides, rocker shafts incorrectly orientated, oil not draining from around the inlet valves?

kevbo82 said:

I'm assuming you just remove the banjo bolt at the timing cover and put a bolt in there to block it (5/16x22) when doing this,

Click to expand...

Yes, you can use a 5/16 x 22 (BSF bolt).

kevbo82 said:

when i remove the bolt should i expect a mess of oil coming out?

Click to expand...

No. A small amount, that's all.

kevbo82 said:

also how long is safe to run with no oil to the head, 5-10 minutes?

Click to expand...

Perhaps we should have a poll?

I say no amount of time is "safe". A conclusion could be unclear and any derivable outcome could be too late for the rest of the system. It just doesn't make sense. To elaborate, It would almost beg to make sure no oil was up there to start with and no one can really tell how long it takes gets point were it doesn't smoke any more. If you are sitting there running dry waiting for the smoke to stop and it doesn't, where do you draw the line. And what ever you find out, it will still require a detailed inspection of all related components.

Your safest bet is to pull the head and check all possible avenues. Once there, it's not too far out to pull the jug and recheck the rings and end gap.

Here is the good news, your oil system seem to be working good.

Or, put some mosquito stuff in the tank and perform a public service everytime you go for a run.
I'm sorry, that's not funny. Just remember, your not alone with this stuff

I think we should find out how long t will run in gear with no oil pipe connected to the head, laid over on the ground and with no oil in the gearbox. This should cover three threads in one go!

dave M said:

I think we should find out how long t will run in gear with no oil pipe connected to the head, laid over on the ground and with no oil in the gearbox. This should cover three threads in one go!

Click to expand...

Uh, and no air filter. I volunteer Hobot to do the testing.

got to have a degree of realism . if no oil , no smoke ? unless its the Rings ! :lol:

HALF a MINUTE should be no worry at all , unless its 40 in the shade , and you got a ' special deal ' on the oil .
( to digress , Moreys in the oil , if you bust a sump or a radiator , will likely save the engine , as it STICKS .)

further , flushing oil , is 1/3 diesel in 30 / 40 .or was , thereabouts .

they said ' Ten Minutes ' on the container ! 8) after about 5 the dilution & flushing made the mechanical operations
occuring internally acoustically discernable . progressively becomeing more acosticcally evident . :shock: about 8
minutes it ecceded my tolerance levels . Waiting for the squeeks & howlings to ' bigin becomeing acostically evident .
So I Switched Off . drained , etc. etc .

SO , train up the Ear . free the braincell from distractions . Focus on the task . keep the Ear Atuned , and if yer hear howling
It To Late . . Loud Ticking and clickings about my limit . Clacking and Im likely to throw something . Shoulda Jumped
before your listening to the clearances jumping rather than the mechanisms fuctioning .

Should be long enough for the running oil to disperce and visual smokeing to abate or decrease discernably .

Id leave the covers off / and try int. side . back to both , the Ex Side . If we're trying to be rational .
Cant see a minute hurting it . But NO MORE . And if yu F up the Bottom End Feed ,theyll be bangings
and clangings .
and loud thumps .
as the bottom end comes out through the walls .

Pinching a damn line with the vice grips'd do it . Probly stuff them. But that Nylons cheap ,
and Bi Annual replacement if in continual service is a good keepsafe .

could be one of a thousand :roll: things split of cracked up in there . lookey plugs & read ref Chapion site or NGK . For OIL fouling , too . BEFORE HAND .

if you plug it where you say ( timing cover , Check the Thread . Dont strip it or missmatch it . Shorten a fresh bolt to a plug , and use a copper washer , anealed . to seal .

kevbo82 said:

L.A.B. said:

May we know the reason why you want to run the engine with the rocker feed disconnected?

Click to expand...

Trying to diagnose oil burning from the pipes. I saw many mentions on here to remove rocker oil feed and see if clears up to rule out leaks at the valves

Click to expand...

How about first taking a look at the plugs. Oily or clean. Both sides look the same or much different. Then have a look at the piston crowns to see if there's an oily crown or dry carbon and ash.

How about compression check. All these are easier information gathering activities that can help you decide what needs to be done. If you just pull the head, then what? If you collect some data (ex. maybe poor compression) then you have a heads up to what else needs to be looked at.

I would not run the engine w/o the rocker lines. The cam and followers will probably get adequate oil from the crankshaft sling but the rockers are steel on steel.

In my youth I broke a black plastic rocker feed line on my way home from work. I rode maybe three mile back, lost much of the oil and thoroughly oiled one of my shoes and on denim pants leg. This was the old Kendall green oil. The shoe never recovered and the oil never really fully washed out of the denim. The engine survived.

Some history on the motor would be helpful. Have you been inside of it? Has someone else been inside of it. How many miles?

dave M said:

I think we should find out how long t will run in gear with no oil pipe connected to the head, laid over on the ground and with no oil in the gearbox. This should cover three threads in one go!

Click to expand...

NoDoubt. What The Hell Is Going On. Tis A Strange Trend.

THIS http://www.boreme.com/posting.php?id=33619 I believe explains how 16 thou on a SS cam blueprinted W&S valve gear
WORKS . a ' schnick ' of a well oiled mechanism . and Throwing the Valves open efortlessly , well , almost .

Music to the Ears ,

Not your average degenerates Triumph emulateing a can of gravel or Marbles . :x painfull to witness , observe or accomponey .

could just route the head feed into a jug to keep the mess down and get some measure of its volume of flow. There is no danger of damage to even ride a ways w/o oil to the head - the main injury may be to the springs over heating so don't race around long but even that wouldn't bother the valve train for quite some time. This is not my opinion but summary of years of listening to many reports by seasoned owners and experts - who are some of the ones who mentioned stopping or removing head flow to check stuff. Running on low throttle in still air for some minutes at a time ain't much risk of over heating either as just ain't burning that much fuel to do so and I've watched temp guages to know. What needs constant oil pressure and flow at 2000 ish rpm are rod shells and cam-lifters, which get more splash oil than wimpy exhaust half of head flow anyway.

Kev, you were just playing with your amals weren't you? How many turn out are your air screws? If they are turn way in, you may see poofs of smoke out the pipes.

I have had to go into my new premiers twice now to clear out the pilot jets. To get mine to idle I had it all the way in on the left side. I really didn't see anything, but I did screw them out(the pilot jets) and stick a #78 on the end hole. There are cross holes and the end hole that is really hard to see. I swapped them from carb to carb and I now have adjustability.

I was hoping the these pilot circuit updates would have the jet that you screw in the body in the float bowl. These premiers seem really good but they beg for extra inline filtration. That pilot system is still a little gimmicky.

hobot said:

could just route the head feed into a jug to keep the mess down and get some measure of its volume of flow.

Click to expand...

An unrestricted rocker feed line would reduce pressure and flow to the big ends as the oil would simply follow the route of least resistance. I don't think it would take long to completely drain the system dry if the oil was run off into a container - especially if it had chance to warm up and thin out, so it might perhaps make (slightly) more sense to feed the oil directly back to the oil tank.

OK to check other oil leaks one would want the head flow restriction so nix my idea though there ain't that much oil flow to worry about running empty for some minutes at shop testing engine speed. It surprised me to learn how little oil old air cooled heads need. The total loss Nortons of yore got a couple pumps every 10-15 miles whether they needed it or not i'm told. Most straight forward block would be plug the manifold take off, maybe by just stacking washers under the banjo so it don't bottom out before sealing off? Definitely may have to get fully heated to expand the leak source to show up, ugh. Btw one head/barrel mess it took a bit to figure out for me, was blow off from fork seals, uhg.

Three places to look, valves, head gasket, rings. Compression testers are free to rent at auto zone for head gasket and rings. If you take off your carbs and exhaust and turn the engine by hand so you can see the valves open with a bright light you might find an oily one. Dont block your oil line.

pete.v said:

Kev, you were just playing with your amals weren't you? How many turn out are your air screws? If they are turn way in, you may see poofs of smoke out the pipes.

I have had to go into my new premiers twice now to clear out the pilot jets. To get mine to idle I had it all the way in on the left side. I really didn't see anything, but I did screw them out(the pilot jets) and stick a #78 on the end hole. There are cross holes and the end hole that is really hard to see. I swapped them from carb to carb and I now have adjustability.

I was hoping the these pilot circuit updates would have the jet that you screw in the body in the float bowl. These premiers seem really good but they beg for extra inline filtration. That pilot system is still a little gimmicky.

Click to expand...

who the f#@k is petev lol took me a while to figure out who i was talking to here. Yes, still messing with EVERYTHING on this bike. The amals are around 1 1/4-1/12 turns out. The shop that rebuilt the motor has been really busy, and literally hasn't had room for another bike, he wanted me to put some miles on the bike, which i've done about 500 now, so next week schedules have finally lined up, i'm going to take the bike to him, have him check everything a newbie norton mechanic has done (carbs, timing, etc) make sure everything is right and take a look at the oil burning.