Been hi-sided off a commando ?

I was reading the topic on tyres and the fitting of 4 inch rears. I wonder has anyone ever had a hot commando step out on a dry road and high side them ?

On a dry racetrack yes.

On a dry road -only after the layshaft bearing came apart. Jim

My own bike has loads of torque and self-steers around tight corners. With the Battle Axe, 4 inch rear tyres, I think I would have to be extremely aggressive and careless to get it to high-side me. I was brought up in the era of really bad tyres, so I probably don't stress the modern ones to the limit. Even so, under the quickest riding my bike never slides about or steps out. Perhaps some of the guys do the overpowered point and squirt stuff ?

Perhaps some of the guys do the overpowered point and squirt stuff ?


Guilty as charged.

Obviously not the fastest way around the track but on the track I am thinking of it's hard to do anything else sometimes. Jim

I saw guy on a racing commando at Broadford recently. I had a fair idea from it's noise what he was riding. Some people don't seem to mind scaring themselves. I think a full race commando with megaphones is not to be trifled with, and could be difficult to race. I tend to take a much gentler approach, and tip toe around at high speed. How do you maintain high cornering speeds with a top end motor ?

There are a couple tracks in the US, [Daytona and Road America come to mind] where a top end motor is worthwhile.

The other 99% are faster on a motor with a solid midrange and a big flywheel. Jim

Older geometry and lower power levels, such as the Commando has, is plain harder to high side than the newer quick steering more powerful bikes. With lots of trail, long head angles and rearward weight bias, low sides are our specialty. Still, when you go fast enough, yeah, our bikes high side too.

I really have to wonder what yoose guys consider fast around real turns as I'm scared to enter the hinged states of old iso Cdo's or evolved buzzy moderns. If you are not in hinged state [Cdo or modern] then its not so hard to lean a bit more and throttle up more till rear skips-steps out some and nothing bad happens but some adrenalin zing + wiggles that settle out fast if that skip-step out was the sharpest point of the turn so the rest is easing up loads on tires/suspension and uprighting, even it accelerating. If the skip-step was not the sharpest point of turn, ie: some sharpness left to handle then likely hi side city.
Sometimes its better to stay in traction for the constant acceleration instead of lossing some instants of froward gaining, yet other times some skip slide around/backing into corners lets ya keep momentum up and get on it sooner more upright better hook up out of there. If ya care to practice like hobot to get a bone/joint memory imprint on how to get into a Cdo hi side and how not to or reflexes to recover just short of upset, let some air out tires and zig zag in your lane with throttle blips at point of most tire load to help zig the other way till the thing begins to feel like a bucking bronco and can even lift a tire or two like ya see the super elites do at time cutting a really sharply loaded snap turn. BTW its like falling off a log to get rear to let go so the real issue once ya do, is how fast its get back in grip to save an upset.

Hobot, getting it back creates problems if you are on bitumen at high speed. Sometimes it is better to slide the bike to the ground, than try to regain traction.

acotrel said:

Hobot, getting it back creates problems if you are on bitumen at high speed. Sometimes it is better to slide the bike to the ground, than try to regain traction.

Click to expand...

Whatsamatta, don't you like highsides?

Hobot, getting it back creates problems if you are on bitumen at high speed. Sometimes it is better to slide the bike to the ground, than try to regain traction.

Click to expand...

Ugh, to me the cycle world is divided into corner cripples and a one in a row tri-linked iso Commando. I can not really discuss my level of riding antics as who would believe a jerk like me has explored and conquered low and high sides to point they are just further means to get around way funner. Yoose guys can only discuss phase two energy handling while I've got names for 3 more faster phases of energy handling that none of the physics-engineering authors even mention. I will tell ya one thing to put in all yo'all's pipes and smoke it - I made a promise-decision ahead of time to ALWAYS Fight the crashes and Never bail out even though I'm scared out my wits. There is nothing like having nothing to loose states to learn stuff or die.

I do flash on Jim's being blown off turn pike and down the slope, YIKES.

hobot has never ever crashed going fast around turns. I have crashed dozens of time putting on brakes under 10 mph on THE Gravel, doing stoppies on paved embankments when a car cleared a blind at speed and no where to put a foot down to catch the bonuce over, going straight ahead at 30-40 mph to have series of holes resonate with suspension to leave bike a few inches in the air to twist-lean over in flight to land on me and of course a handful of animals strikes and raw woods and creek beds.

hehe one almost successful but unintended barrel roll on Peel happened as I turned off THE Gravel into grassy yard drive that has a 4-5 ft high embankment I practice bluff face riding on but miss judged the traction and we slide sideways off the crest so tires tripped a hi side and went over head pivoting around the seat level to land at too much inward angle on pasture grass to hold so threw sod cods and me out even further. I will never get that sensation out of mind but the lingering sense is if I just had hit it a bit hotter and tossed front over more I'd of landed more upright and leaped on out of there like I do phase 4's on sharp tramac. I don't guess the rear patch contact area full inertia of bike pilot impact has any significant useful phenomena to any of you but Boy Howdy it does to me on Peel and all I can think about with blown big block toque HIT.

To do what i like on Peel means going in so harsh and fast its full commitment past crashing states of ordinary cycles into controlled crashing way too fast and furious for mere human power and speed to handle, speeds/acceleration so fast you can not even enter a Peel turn by counter steering as simply can not take the loads so breaks loose before the acceleration become effective enough to splash blood to back of brain and tail bone. Oh Oh how I have tried on my SuVee to practice Peel's lines but she lets go to freaking easy with all the horrible twitches that take down good brave pilots.

Low sides and high sides are like , Oh No Please Don't toss me in ta Briar Patch...





At Ricochet Rabbit Ridding Ranch and Rifle Range they teach accelerating so harsh up right any tip off upright gives instant low side on spun out rear to trip down faster than human can lean or fork force, staying on increasing throttle to keep rear spun so when lifting back up on more tire patch it suddenly hooks up a hi side save and leaps ahead straight ahead so ya just do it again w/o let off if there more of the turn left, especially delicious in severely decreasing radius, so so addicting ya tend to make every turn a sharp decrease for the Zing of your lives. Easy to transition to air time hi sides that land a bike length out form launch but at some point becomes counter productive as can't accelerate with rear in the air, BUT Boy Howdy do ya ever just after the landing. Sling Shot Turns that require fighter pilot breath control to keep next aim point in focus of the tunneled vision of blood slosh. This happens exactly as fast as ya see video of sudden race bike low to hi side crashes.

Whatsamatta, don't you like highsides? [/quote]

I was bitten early on, while riding off road in a dirt/grass field (was on a '69 Yamaha 180cc "scrambler"two stroke twin) and that high side made me a bit gun shy ......but now I think that maybe it saved my bacon, because later when I was in my late teens & riding SOHC 750's on the street I had a better respect for how things could get out of control in a hurry.....still did some pretty stupid things at high speed on public roads though,, almost high sided my brothers Norton --but almost doesn't count so I'm a NO--never high sided a Commando :wink:

Comnoz, two words "Marco Simoncelli' ! Mick Doohan perfected the technique of steering the wrong way in bad rear end slides.
However I have to wonder about guys fitting larger tyres to commandos for street use, seems like a good way to stuff the handling for little gain ? I've never been high sided, however I've slid to the ground plenty of times, and been launched over the front about three times, when the tyre has let go and the bike has gone into a tank slapper. High sides usually happen due to the rider trying to stop the slide by steering into the direction the bike is going, and the tyre grabs ?

When it comes to highside crashes -you remember them forever. I still remember my first -close to 50 years ago on a 65cc Honda.

I like to fit a 120 sized rear tire for the street -but not for the traction. My main reason for doing it is the increased mileage I get out of the tire. As long as you stay with a 90 profile tire the handling is not noticeably affected. Jim

NEVER shut the throttle , when youre slideing . :lol:

Ha ha Matt its hi throttle by immature hoolagans that causes hi sides sheeze. Often works though scary as it is, but part of the crazy fighting spirit needed to ride faster than reasonable men and women would. If tossing reason to wind and fates try Throwing yourself at the ground by hi throttle then chop it for the saving Grace of a Sky Hook Lift Up.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0AyFzQg4i0Q

http://www.youtube.com/channel/HC7Ft_ptzQMCE

It isn't shutting the throttle which usually causes the problem. It is usually a top end motor being pedaled too hard which causes the slide in the first place. The natural tendency is to correct by turning into the direction of the slide, and backing off. The tyre then grabs and stands the bike up, sending the rider into orbit. It is sometimes possible to turn into the direction of the slide, get on the gas even harder and drive the bike upright under you, with a really vicious wheel spin. The MotoGP guys cannot do that with 200 BHP, it all happens too quickly. I suggest most commando based racers seem to be more forgiving of idiocy. With my bike, the steering is so quick, if you think you want to be somewhere, you are there, - however the motor is not vicious. With two strokes you learn to feed the throttle on slowly. I find that with my Seeley, I can gas it extremely hard very early in corners, and even with the quick self-steering or perhaps because of it, it never steps out. I still wouldn't slam the throttle open coming out of a corner. When you have crashed enough, you learn to be smooth. Peter Williams once said 'nothing happens quickly on a commando'. I don't think he discovered the joys of greatly reduced trail with a 27 degree rake steering head.

Garry McCoy rewrote the book.

http://youtu.be/YwSIX0lNSVo

As far as stepping out,yes the counter steer can bite when the bike grips out of line,high side is game on (or not)
Of course counter steer force is in progress at the time of a step out (to corner )so it is emphasized not by the rider but by the motorcycle itself.

http://youtu.be/tNcZyDSM6GI

That looks like a Fun road . http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HM-k0yD-c58 Certainly seems the place to BE . :?

Selecting a protected parking spot , with the machine set in the general direction of ' out of there ' sometimes isnt to bad an idea . :?

" Peter Williams once said 'nothing happens quickly on a commando'. I don't think he discovered the joys of greatly reduced trail with a 27 degree rake steering head. "

at the classic meeting at puke a coee , chatting briefly to the man , he considered " the P.R. Commano isnt the same thing at all as the F 750 as regards accuracy ," at race speeds .
" it does not steer as acurately at all ' pretty much word for word .

Generally in regard to the I.o.M. , which is somewhat undulateing in parts .

Ancient tyres ( Id regard Avon G.P.s as such ) Did Not have the levels of adheshion of fresh K81s or later tyres .
The degenerate ' speedmasters ( Even the Mk II S.M. ) generally didnt have the side area , lent over , and the cases wernt as stiff . these things would slide around & throttle steeer , BEFORE
they streesed the chassis to the point of distortion / missalignment . The K 81s / TT100s to an extent will drift , where the forces are pretty well transfering & in balance , IF the chassis is
left to its own devices and the rider is just doing the correct control inputs / manipulations . Id considered they were like micro switches , the effort wasnt there , it was in staying seated .

If your bike has a tendency to run wide coming out of corners, you tend to lay it over more to get it back, just when you are applying urge . It is about the steering geometry. My bike is a bit disconcerting, however when you get used to using it's self- steering in corners , it is really great. Everything about my Seeley requires a very light touch. The twin front discs operate strongly with one finger, and with the steering you simply feel where you want to go and gas it, and the bike does a lot for you. I think it would be an easy bike to crash for someone who hasn't raced much. I've never taken it to Broadford race circuit because a lot of the corners are blind, and the Seeley comes on with a rush. I will have to think about it a bit more before I go there with this bike, I don't need anxiety.
My old short stroke 500cc Triton was the exact opposite to the Seeley as far as power and handling were concerned. It always ran wide coming out of corners due to the 18 inch wheels in a standard wideline featherbed frame, and it had an extreme top end motor which came on with a real bang. With megaphones it was impossible to ride quickly on any race circuit except for the largest. With a two into one exhaust, it was barely manageable. It was like my dog, I loved it because it was a bastard, however it was exhausting to race.