Basket Case. . . How bad is bad?

Bonwit · Aug 1, 2009

Traveled 350 miles to look at a basket case today. The bike looked like the photographs but the owner failed to mention the cylinder head crack and subsequent repair! The weld wasn't very pretty either - kind of a lump just ahead of the left carburetor intake, spray painted silver. A cursory look at the frame showed no obvious misalignment. A little looseness in the rear end, but I guess the isolastics are shot. I do suspect the bike had been laid down at one time. One of the lugs that attaches to the head-steady was bent, and the kick-start and other pedals were either slightly bent, or pretty rough. Then there are the two dents in the down-tubes, apparently from a crash bar installation. The indention appeared to be about 1/8". A number of parts I thought would only need a good cleaning and polishing turns out will need replacing. With the head issue, I'm thinking this could become a budget buster.

Think I should I be looking for another bike? I planned to overhaul the engine anyway, but didn't plan on replacing the head. What does a head cost anyway? BTW, he's asking $1,500, but that was before I discovered the head repair.

Not a good day.

Robert_Norton · Aug 1, 2009

750 Commando heads go by on eBay pretty regularly, and for not all that much. Same with pretty much everything else, too, for that matter.

swooshdave · Aug 1, 2009

Pics of the pile of parts?

ML · Aug 2, 2009

Commando frames are fragile. It doesn't take much to bend one. See if you can get the fuel tank off and check the straighness of the top frame tube. This can be done with a 2 foot engineers straight edge or similar steel ruler. If the bike's been stacked its likely the top frame tube will have a bow in it. If that is the case, might be better to avoid it. 2nd hand good frames go for maybe $US500 to $700 but new ones can still be purchased for around $1,000.

Mick

L.A.B. · Aug 2, 2009

ML said:
If the bike's been stacked its likely the top frame tube will have a bow in it.

That's how they are built, the top tube generally isn't straight.

Cookie · Aug 2, 2009

Ya know LAB, I used to have crash specs for a Commando, no idea where I got them from now. Are they in the manual?

L.A.B. · Aug 3, 2009

Cookie said:
I used to have crash specs for a Commando, no idea where I got them from now. Are they in the manual?

The basic frame dimensions (frame checking data- Frame & Ancilliaries section) are given in the manual?

kommando · Aug 3, 2009

I have 2 stripped frames in the garage, both have a bow in the top tube, one has been front end crashed and the bow is 5/16"+, the 2 front downtubes are also bent showing the front wheel hit something and bent the steering headstock backwards and down. The other frame is a known uncrashed one (planned replacement for the first) and the bow is 1/8" so its a matter of degree. I will double check these figures later and update.

L.A.B. · Aug 3, 2009

My own MkIII's top tube is bowed by 3/16" between the headstock and where the frame tubes connect to the top tube, and there are no apparent signs of any frontal impact having occurred at any time in its (unknown) past?

This bowed top tube question has been discussed previously, the general consensus of opinion being that's how the frames appear to have been made originally?:> post10638.html > post8979.html

seaguy · Aug 3, 2009

Being production made bikes I would think they were jigged up, welded and then the cradle milled for square since the welds can pull it any which way.

maylar · Aug 3, 2009

Robert_Norton said:
750 Commando heads go by on eBay pretty regularly, and for not all that much. Same with pretty much everything else, too, for that matter.

They've been $500 and up if there's no broken fins or stripped exhaust threads. 850's are even higher.

If this bike has been crashed I'd be looking for something else.

Scooter62 · Aug 3, 2009

Bonwit
That basket case will be a real money gobbler. I can tell you, as I'm sure others on this site, a non running, fairly intact (no; bent frame, cracked head, broken crank, blown out cases, soft cam) will easily suck $3K to $4k from your bank account to get a good reliable rider. Yep you can do it for less but only if your expectations are not too high and appearance is not important and you do all the work yourself. To get a Commando of the caliber that Road scholar and Coco built or some of the others you will see on this forum be prepared to part with ten big ones ($10,000) or more.
I had no idea what it would cost to rebuild/restore a Commando when I started on mine and now I'm maybe 3/4ths done and well north of $6k. I don't regret the investment but I probably would have opted for an older restoration that could be had for the same money rather than starting with an abused non-runner. Just be patient and remember the old saying "in for a penny, in for a pound" is the mantra of the Commando owner.

Scooter

zotz · Aug 3, 2009

Ditto for me. My basket case ended up nudging the $7000.00 figure and that's with me machining up most of the stainless and doing almost everything myself. The most important thing I learned was that of the two bikes I had to chose from, it would have been cheaper to buy the $1500.00 ratty runner than the $800.00 Basket.

Ron L · Aug 3, 2009

Unless you have a loft full of parts it is usually more economically feasible to start with a complete but slightly ratty runner. The few hundred extra will be easily offset by the cost of missing parts.

bpatton · Aug 3, 2009

I know a guy who starightens frames for a living. He told me that the bowing of the backbone was due to a slight heat warping during manufacturing. Don't mean nuthin. Every Commando frame has it to one degree or another.

As far as the differences between a runner vs basket, it is always much easier to be the one disassembling the thing so you can track the parts and do the postmortem yourself. Even if you end up replacing a lot of them.

Cookie · Aug 3, 2009

Yup,

All that matters is the location of the critical mountings. Even then there has been a fair amount of leeway on most bike frames I've seen. As mentioned it is not all that expensive to have a pro straighten one.

bpatton · Aug 3, 2009

maylar said:
Robert_Norton said:

750 Commando heads go by on eBay pretty regularly, and for not all that much. Same with pretty much everything else, too, for that matter.

Click to expand...

They've been $500 and up if there's no broken fins or stripped exhaust threads. 850's are even higher.

If this bike has been crashed I'd be looking for something else.

In addition to exhaust threads and fins, spindle bores can be knackered. Anyone ever dealt with that problem?

splatt · Aug 4, 2009

On the subject of bent backbones, there is a lot of welding were the 1'' brace tube meets the backbone,this would distort it every time.

B+Bogus · Aug 4, 2009

splatt said:
On the subject of bent backbones, there is a lot of welding were the 1'' brace tube meets the backbone,this would distort it every time.

This is certainly true of my frame - there are no subtle curves on the main spine, but there is a perceptible high-spot where the cross-brace is welded in.

I would expect evidence of crash damage to manifest itself in the immediate vicinity of the headstock, with obvious distortion to the downtubes. Steel frames can be straightened anyway.

The basket case discussion is a tricky one - the bike I'm restoring was pretty much complete, but is having so much stuff replaced that it could have been less than 80% complete without it costing me more to restore.
I was reassured that the engine and gearbox were complete and in the frame, although it didn't stop me having to get the exhaust threads repaired and the barrels welded to replace broken fins and a broken flange :evil:

My view is that if you've had to attend to 100% of the bike, then you're safe in the knowledge that its 100% right - and no blame on the previous owner if it isn't!

GRM 450 · Aug 4, 2009

If I had the time over again I would buy a cheaper bike or even a basket case instead of paying close to top dollar and having to rebuild, straighten, plate and paint everything any way.
There seems to me to be lots of surprises in these bikes for the uneducated. Some of the worst were there when they left the factory. Mine is stamped 7/77 and there were a lot of blunt tools, out of calibration machines, and poor castings by then.
And of course D rods and cams made from chocolate...........

Basket Case. . . How bad is bad?

Bonwit

Robert_Norton

swooshdave

ML

L.A.B.

Moderator

Cookie

L.A.B.

Moderator

kommando

L.A.B.

Moderator

seaguy

maylar

Scooter62

zotz

Ron L

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bpatton

Cookie

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splatt

B+Bogus

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