after market starters

Looking to hear from owners who have installed the starters- did you have to buy/install others parts, such as battery, new higher ouput alternator, digital ignition ?

Currently fitting an Alton starter to my 72 750 Commando. They suggest a larger capacity battery so there's one extra. The Alton kit comes with an upgraded alternator. The bike suffers from the occasional kick back so taking the precaution of replacing the very old Boyer MK3 with a Tri- Spark system to protect the new starter mechanism. Have also had to buy A 20mm belt as the previously fitted RGM 32mm is too wide to get the starter mechanism into the chain case.
So.......yes a few additional parts needed for me.
Lots of photos of the install and necessary modifications but this site is not really image friendly.

installed an Alton system several months ago. like Notxal, came with an new alternator. upgraded my battery to a 220CCA/20Ah motobatt. my 74 is fitted with a older tri-spark and podtronics bridge rectifier. didn't upgrade to a belt - kept the OE chain. installation went fairly smooth. spent more time fitting the larger battery and starter relay, and repositioning the podtronics module. had to fab a new starter power cable since supplied cable was a few inches short because of where I positioned the starter relay. alton indicated they could supply a new assembly, but I opted to fab my own.

I installed an Alton E-start in 2012. Nothing else was changed!!!

But that's not totally accurate...

I had already installed a Trispark in '08 and a Shorai 18AH battery in '10, when I needed a new battery anyway.

However, the OEM points/AAU worked fine with the Alton - I removed the TS/Re-installed the OEM ignition for test purposes last year and ran it for about a month that way. No issue at all with the Alton/OEM ignition. So I can vouch for the TS and the OEM with the Alton (but no other ignition system) - no kickbacks with either.

KeithS said:

Looking to hear from owners who have installed the starters- did you have to buy/install others parts, such as battery, new higher ouput alternator, digital ignition ?

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should have clarified-on an 75 850 -such as the dyno-dave type starters

I have no experience of DynoDave’s starter but everyone that has fitted one raves about them!

We rebuilt ours using a new 4 brush/4 coil starter as a parts donor - the cost was very reasonable and they are readily available for Mercury boat engines and Harleys.


Don’t listen to the people that say the four brush upgrade make a difference.
It doesn’t increase the torque of the motor, it just makes it spin a little quicker.

The big difference comes from converting from two to four field coils.
It’s an easy thing to do, and makes a huge difference as it makes it a lot torquier.
Fitting the coils is awkward, but using a parts donor means that the difficult bit is already done for you, the rest is an absolute breeze.

We also fitted a set of heavier gauge cables (6 gauge) as the factory cables are way undersized (EDIT: the originals are 10 gauge!)

The breakaway torque was recalibrated on the anti backfire device so that it didn’t slip with the extra torque

The bike has a Shorai (36Ah 540CCA) battery, but the charging system was upgraded/modified to support it with a Shindengen SH775 regulator/rectifier on it’s own fuse.

A charge warning light from improvingclassicmotorcycles keeps an eye on the alternator output and battery voltage instead of the warning light assimilator which is a bit of a waste of space.

We did away with the single phase alternator and fitted a Lucas RM24 LU47244 175 watt 3 phase alternator stator together with a Lucas RM20 LU54202299 rotor which we turned down to provide correct clearance.


A couple of other changes:

Nothing to do with the starter but the bike has now got a Tri-Spark electronic ignition instead of the MK3 Boyer that the previous owner had fitted.

Also fitted is a Crane twin output single coil and Denso VW22 sparkplugs (for dual output single coil)


It’s a lot of minor changes that all come together to make a big difference.
The bike starts first time every time with no issues and no hesitation.

The upgraded starter turns the engine over like there are no sparkplugs in it.

' using a parts donor means that the difficult bit is already done for you, the rest is an absolute breeze.'

Do I remember shimming the end cap, and swapping brushes round to correct the rotation???? But yes, nothing too complicated and a startling transformation if you have a Mk3.

Yes, you need to change the rotation direction which involves turning each brush 90 degrees.

I use the factory starter, 6 g starter and ground wires combined with a Odyssey PC 625 battery (requires a little fettling). Works fine for me with Boyer MKIII and now a Boyer MKIV. If your bike is in a good state of tune and timing is correct I think you should be fine.

Deets55 said:

I use the factory starter, 6 g starter and ground wires combined with a Odyssey PC 625 battery (requires a little fettling). Works fine for me with Boyer MKIII and now a Boyer MKIV. If your bike is in a good state of tune and timing is correct I think you should be fine.

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DynoDave starter is amazing...Odyssey PC 625 battery...RITA ignation and larger battery cables and she starts like a modern bike. He also offers a chrome version. I like shiney
Rod

I have an Alton starter a norvil 32 mm belt drive ,iwis starter chain,podtronics reg rectifier Lucas Rita ignition,odessey 16ah battery and a 12 v 12 v inverter to ensure 12 v to the Rita no problems at all

Britbike850 said:

DynoDave starter is amazing...Odyssey PC 625 battery...RITA ignation and larger battery cables and she starts like a modern bike. He also offers a chrome version. I like shiney
Rod

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Without a doubt Dave’s starter is a good piece of equipment, It would have been on my list if I didn’t have a functioning starter. I think if the battery technology we have today was around in 1975 the ES Commando would not have the bad reputation it has now as far as starting. I did systematic improvements on by bike, the battery is what made it a reliable starting bike.
Pete

MK 111. MK1V Boyer. D.D. starter. Bigger cables. Bigger battery. Gold plated connectors. New Solenoid.
All good , rock on.

I think the charging system was one of the bigger problems with the MKIII. My original starter worked OK with aircraft 4 ga cables and a fully charged battery. The problem, especially with a halogen headlight, was the battery was running down. The wasted space assimilator wouldn't tell you much. and an early Boyer randomly firing on low voltage was the kiss of death for the sprag.

Since upgrading to the well engineered DD starter, 3 phase alternator, and Pazon Altair, it's been a totally reliable system. If the DD starter wasn't available the 3 phase alternator and heavy cables might have made it usable and the early Boyer may not have destroyed several sprags and ultimately the starter on my bike. It's been an evolution and I'm quite happy as it is now.

JimNH said:

I think the charging system was one of the bigger problems with the MKIII. My original starter worked OK with aircraft 4 ga cables and a fully charged battery. The problem, especially with a halogen headlight, was the battery was running down. The wasted space assimilator wouldn't tell you much. and an early Boyer randomly firing on low voltage was the kiss of death for the sprag.

Since upgrading to the well engineered DD starter, 3 phase alternator, and Pazon Altair, it's been a totally reliable system. If the DD starter wasn't available the 3 phase alternator and heavy cables might have made it usable and the early Boyer may not have destroyed several sprags and ultimately the starter on my bike. It's been an evolution and I'm quite happy as it is now.

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It's an evolution , yes. Just waiting on Matt's e-start primary upgrade kit to be released.

CNW. Class all the way.

KeithS said:

should have clarified-on an 75 850 -such as the dyno-dave type starters

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I fitted a new style starter on a custom with Mk3 motor, and also wanted to change to negative earth, for other reasons. I discovered the starter turns the same way when reversing leads, and it works like a modern bike

@jan nelder yes, it’s not a permanent magnet motor, so reversing polarity doesn’t make it spin in reverse.

If you need to change the direction of rotation (like you do if you use a Prestolite motor from a Harley or Mercury engine) you simply need to change the orientation of the brushes.

Torontonian said:

It's an evolution , yes. Just waiting on Matt's e-start primary upgrade kit to be released.

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Looks like it's available now...

FWIW, I have never owned a Mark III but a friend who has one claims that his OEM starter went from being the "start -assist system" it was often called to starting with no issues at all simply by installing heavier than stock cables. He SAYS he made no other changes. I can verify that his starter spins with no hesitation and easily starts the bike.