70 Frame Question

I wonder if anyone can throw any light on this:
My bike has the 1970 type frame with the centre stand mounting lugs on the cross member under the gearbox. The engine number indicates a build date in the 2nd half of 1970.
However, the stand is mounted to the gearbox cradle, like later models. It could be a mod. by a PO, but I am wondering whether the factory may have built some bikes this way in the transition period at about the time my bike was produced. Does anyone know?
I'm not really bothered either way, as it works OK, it would just be nice to know. I have added further confusion for some future owner, if there is one, by adding a front cross member like the later models so that I can fit the late model side stand.

To my knowledge the factory did one OR the other. As you write, I suspect a PO installed a later type cradle, or just drilled holes in the existing one. I also believe the "early" frame mounted center stands are different as well. When I had a super early frame from 1968, what you describe is a modification I did. I also had a strengthing tube welded horizontally under the main large backbone tube. There are horror stories of early frames breaking at the headstock, because of the original frames headstock bracing flawed design. I'm sure othe more knowledgable folks will chime in ... but that is my 2 cents.

On another note, my early 1968 frame had no MSO plate on the frame, as all later Commandos had. It had the MSO numbers (many call them "VIN" but technically, "VIN" is incorrect) stamped directly on the frame headstock. :shock: I believe few owners have actually seen this early type of stamping. Cheers.

MFB said:

However, the stand is mounted to the gearbox cradle, like later models. It could be a mod. by a PO

Click to expand...

Probably a mod. by a PO.

Did you check the frame mounting plates for witness marks or other indentations caused when the stand was extended or folded? Check the pivot holes for ovality and feel along the lower edges of the mounting plates for any steps or unevenness or score marks on the sides which would show the stand had been fitted there originally.

Thanks guys. Looks like mod. by PO;
The holes are nice and round, but there is some deformation of the "stop" section of the lugs indicating that a stand was once there. I haven't done any measuring, but it is likely that the cradle-mounted stand differs from the older type as posted.
On the point of the MSO number, my bike as acquired has no ID plate on the headstock, although there are signs that there may have been one rivetted there. It does have a number beginning with N73 stamped into the headstock.
It does have the bracing tube to the headstock. I read some time ago that this tube was the brainchild of Ken Sprayson of Reynolds tubing, to the chagrin of chief engineer of the Commando project Dr Stefan Bauer.
Cheers.

I have a 70 model, frame number 139206. Andover tells me that 69 had no plate, number was stamped into headstock. if you get the date of manufacture correct, perhaps forking out the fee to the Pommy Norton Owners Club for certificate, Andover will supply a plate correctly stamped and with rivets.
hope this helps
B.Rad

B.Rad said:

Andover tells me that 69 had no plate, number was stamped into headstock.

Click to expand...

?


Dave
69S

Hi 72Westie

If it helps, my bike is a 1970 Roadster - 140808 - which I date to about October 1970. I bought it in 1976 pretty much unmolested from the first owner. It has the frame mounted centre stand as it should, but it also has the holes drilled for the later engine cradle mounted one. I did buy a later stand a few years ago - and it would have bolted striaght on. I suspect a PO has done the same to your bike, as the later stand was an improved design.

I suspect there were a number of parts starting to come in, towards the end of the year, which were destined for the 1971 model.

My bike also has unshrouded rear shocks, whereas the 1970 model is meant to have the chrome upper shrouds.

I suspect there was a fair amount of parts cross over towards the end of model years.

Hi LondonMark

Thanks for the info. My bike is a bit later than yours, 141357, which prompted me to think there may have been some factory parts cross-over at play.

However, there are signs that there was once a frame-mounted stand fitted. My association with this bike goes back to 1973, when I loaned a friend the money to buy it (he paid me back promptly).

He collided with a car a few years later and the bike languished until 1983 when I bought it to replace my 72 fastback, which was stolen. I don't think Gary changed the stand, although he did fit a disc brake front end (which was destroyed in the collision).

Rebuilding the bike was the first major work I ever did on a motorbike. Now I've stripped it down again to see if I can make some improvements, and I'm so glad that I discovered this fantastic forum of people who speak Norton and are eager to help others.

Cheers.

MFB - apologies - I replied to the wrong guy!
I suspect from the number of your bike - that,like mine, it would have had the cradle with the holes ready drilled for the later stand. If you have found evidence that it originally had the frame mounted stand it could be that the first owner replaced it - either because it fell apart - or it got damaged in an accident. I have found bits on my bike that had obviously been "repaired" and the dealer didn't have the orginal part, so replaced it with a later part which was available. I think my original Wipac TriConsul switch disappeared that way!
Also - some owners found the original stand less robust that the later one - so could well have done some subtle "upgrading"

Regards