1973 Norton Commando 850

Hello,

I've posted my new member intro and already have a question for anyone who is willing to chime in. I'm currently looking at a bike..The engine and frame #'s do not match, they are Engine 306305 and Frame 303531. My concern is, would this devalue the bike, or is it commonplace for the later models to have the engine and frame numbers not lining up? I've read here that this is the case for some of the late models but unsure if the 73's also have this issue.

Thanks
Paul

Hi Paul, Welcome on board.

I haven't been around much for quite a while but I can't resist giving advice. A couple of things to consider. What is your goal with this bike? Highly modified? Slightly modified? Completely stock? If you want a bike that is valued as a bone-stock commando then the numbers are a consideration. However, check around this forum and you will discover that most of us have not been able to resist modifying these bikes. Sometimes the mods are reversible and sometimes not. If you want to be free to modify at will, then starting out with a bike that is already a "bitsa" can be a bonus. It removes the guilt if not the expense.

As for this particular bike. If you already know that you are going to tear it all the way down and build it from scratch, then you might be better off if you can't get it started at all. What? Well, I'm just enough of a pirate that I would leverage that for every price reduction I could get. As long as the motor kicks through, there isn't a whole lot to be afraid of in there. Even if it runs, it is no guarantee that you won't find some stuff that makes you weep to see what some other idiot did.

Look over the screws, and boltheads/nuts to see it it looks like somebody worked on it with a pipe wrench. Are there broken fins on the head or barrel? That kind of stuff. Are the spokes tight and intact. Obviously somebody has worked on this ahead of you. But look for signs that they cared about what they did or evidence that they didn't know what they were doing.

You might want to post your location or put it in your profile. There may be a member near you that would take a look with you. Ultimately, there is very little that can't be solved with money.

Good luck!
Russ

NortonNewbie said:

I'm currently looking at a bike that was found by a friend of mine, private sale.The engine and frame #'s do not match, they are Engine 306305 and Frame 303531. My concern is, would this devalue the bike,

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To some potential buyers, it would.

NortonNewbie said:

or is it commonplace for the later models to have the engine and frame numbers not lining up? I've read here that this is the case for some of the late models but unsure if the 73's also have this issue.

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The frame plate, engine and gearbox would originally have matching numbers, however, from around mid-'73 to mid '75, 850 frames generally had an additional non-matching 'F1xxxxx' number stamped directly onto the frame headstock alongside the frame plate, so this is not the same as having engine and frame (plate) numbers that don't match.

My 72 combat had non-matching numbers right off of the showroom floor. So yes, not all Commandos had matching numbers. Darn cheap and easy to get an unstamped frame tag if matching is important to you. $6.75 from Old Britts.

eskasteve said:

My 72 combat had non-matching numbers right off of the showroom floor. So yes, not all Commandos had matching numbers.

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However, the vast majority were, so unless it can be proved from the factory records that it left the factory as such then there will always be a question mark hanging over a non-matching numbers Commando.

eskasteve said:

Darn cheap and easy to get an unstamped frame tag if matching is important to you.

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Then the frame number probably won't match the documentation (assuming it has some?) which could be difficult or impossible to change.

Thanks to all of you for the advice. The best I can tell by looking through all the charts I've found online is that the frame and tank #'s are both 850 roadster numbers (Engine 306305 and Frame 303531), and the 'wide loop' rear frame assembly seems to match up to these numbers as well. The bike does have a steel interstate tank on it though, so I suppose it was swapped out with the original. The barrels are silver, which matches the description I've read of the Interstate models. So I'm a bit confused as to what the bike is. I'll try to see if i can figure out how to post pics here

NortonNewbie said:

The best I can tell by looking through all the charts I've found online is that the frame and tank #'s are both 850 roadster numbers (Engine 306305 and Frame 303531)

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"Tank #'s" :?

Where did you get that information? :?
It is unlikely you will find accurate information online about whether any particular serial number was a Roadster or Interstate.

"Tank #'s" :?
haha
whoops, I meant engine #

L.A.B. said:

NortonNewbie said:

The best I can tell by looking through all the charts I've found online is that the frame and tank #'s are both 850 roadster numbers (Engine 306305 and Frame 303531)

Click to expand...

"Tank #'s" :?

Where did you get that information? :?
It is unlikely you will find accurate information online about whether any particular serial number was a Roadster or Interstate.

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whoops I meant engine # haha

I think one of them was the norvil site, the other was through creeping various threads. I'll post pics now, would be great to get some feedback on what Im looking at

Hope these work,here are a few photos of the bike in question...

NortonNewbie said:

The bike does have a steel interstate tank on it though, so I suppose it was swapped out with the original. The barrels are silver, which matches the description I've read of the Interstate models. So I'm a bit confused as to what the bike is.

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Silver barrels doesn't identify it as an Interstate. '73 850 Roadsters also had silver barrels.
http://www.classicbike.biz/Norton/Broch ... LineUp.pdf


Photos:
Interstate tank but the side panel (panels?) are Roadster, seat is non-standard (Interstate and Roadster seats are also different), instrument pods are the pre-'73 type.

Photos:
Interstate tank but the side panel (panels?) are Roadster, seat is non-standard (Interstate and Roadster seats are also different), instrument pods are the pre-'73 type.

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[/quote]

Thanks! yes he did say he thinks that the seat is an "old britts" seat, and that he believes the guages were swapped out by the PO. Which I guess means that the stated 17,600 km mileage is in fact not accurate.

Heres a shot of the rear, it has a wider loop and larger taillight than Im used to seeing

NortonNewbie said:

I think one of them was the norvil site

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300000 1973 I 850 HiRider Interstate 850 motor with silver barrel. Balanced exhaust system. All Disc braked.

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Yes, that is an error on Norvil's part as it should include Roadster.

Regardless of the changes, the bike looks to be in reasonable condition, so if the price is right it's certainly worth considering even though it's not 100% original condition.

Couple of additional pics...






I suppose what I have here then is a 1973 norton commando roadster frame with interstate tank, while the engine could be either interstate or roadster?

Looks as though the finned points cover has a busted fin. I assume they are somewhat hard to find but that a stock unit would be available...

NortonNewbie said:

I suppose what I have here then is a 1973 norton commando roadster frame with interstate tank and engine could be either interstate or roadster?

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Not exactly, as the 'frame' and therefore the actual model type could have been either, so as far as is known it's a 1973 850 (850 Mk1) Norton Commando.

First,..... you are so lucky to have LAB's keen eye, looking your bike over and making comments to you. I chuckled where he pointed out the mistake on the norvill website. As he said, that bike looks like it's in good condition. If the price is reasonable and it runs well, you could be onto a bike that doesn't really need much of anything as a "rider".

Of course you may want to make adjustments like electronic ignition if it still has points, a reed type breather, or a rose joint type headsteady if this bike has all stock parts. There's a lot of modern options for a commando if you want to upgrade some things. (I recently got an LED headlight bulb that fits into the OEM bulb fixture, more light with less amperage draw) There's so much you can change or not change and still have a great commando.

Anyway, good luck with your search. If the seller wants a lot of money because the bike looks excellent, it should also start and run well to justify that higher price.

Not exactly, as the 'frame' and therefore the actual model type could have been either, so as far as is known it's a 1973 850 (850 Mk1) Norton Commando.

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Thanks LAB so much for helping me try to wrap my tired brain around this. I think the bike seems to be in good condition, its obviously been through a past restoration, the title is clean, etc. I think i'll try to decide on my offer and hopefully the owner and I can come to agreement.

o0norton0o said:

First,..... you are so lucky to have LAB's keen eye, looking your bike over and making comments to you. I chuckled where he pointed out the mistake on the norvill website. As he said, that bike looks like it's in good condition. If the price is reasonable and it runs well, you could be onto a bike that doesn't really need much of anything as a "rider".

Of course you may want to make adjustments like electronic ignition if it still has points, a reed type breather, or a rose joint type headsteady if this bike has all stock parts. There's a lot of modern options for a commando if you want to upgrade some things. (I recently got an LED headlight bulb that fits into the OEM bulb fixture, more light with less amperage draw) There's so much you can change or not change and still have a great commando.

Anyway, good luck with your search. If the seller wants a lot of money because the bike looks excellent, it should also start and run well to justify that higher price.

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Thank you, a lot of great advice here, I will see how she runs and take it from there!

NortonNewbie said:

Looks as though the finned points cover has a busted fin. I assume they are somewhat hard to find but that a stock unit would be available...

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Hey There Norton Newbie, that is a good looking bike. Just thought I would weigh in on the thread. I wouldn't worry too much about the busted fin on the aftermarket points. You could just take a file to it and feather it out or file it down or break the other side of that fin to balance it out and make it look a little better. As some of the other guys have said if it runs & rides well and the money is right with you...I say go for it. However, I also say that if it doesn't run or ride perfectly, but the money is still right (meaning lower) then I say still go for it