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13 mm master cylinders.....how much improvement ?

Discussion in 'Norton Commando Motorcycles (Classic)' started by jsnorton, Jun 8, 2019.

  1. jsnorton

    jsnorton

    Joined:
    Oct 10, 2018
    Has anyone on here gone to the 13mm master cylinder and maybe the braided hose , but kept the original caliper and rotor ?
    How much better braking do you have ?
    Can you lock up the front wheel at 40 mph ?
    Will the front brake hold good enough to do burn outs without the bike moving ?
    I just replaced my brake pads ( i know it takes some time to break them in ) and stopping seems to take awhile longer than with the old original pads. I am still using the original 5/8 " MC.
    Modern bikes without anti-lock can send you over the front if not careful. Does the 13mm upgrade act in the same way or no. I am looking for honest replies as I am considering doing the upgrade. Thanks.
     
  2. lazyeye6

    lazyeye6 VIP MEMBER

    Joined:
    Feb 28, 2014
    Do it!! Anything to improve the original front brake. I did the 13mm conversion along with a new hose (not braided), and Ferodo Platinum pads. I'd say that the sum of the difference was about a 25% increase in braking power. Still, no way I can lock up my
    front wheel at 40 mph. I think it could hold the wheel in a burnout, but that's not how I roll. You want a real front brake? Open your wallet and spend $1200 on a Brembo or equivalent modern disc brake system.
     
    jsnorton likes this.
  3. eskasteve

    eskasteve VIP MEMBER

    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2012
    I did the same as lazyeye6 and added a stainless braided line and was happy with the results. I tested it first with the stock rubber line and noted about a 25% improvement also. With the addition of the SS line about 30% total improvement. Worth the money in my book.
     
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  4. Guido

    Guido

    Joined:
    May 23, 2011
    I did the MadAss140 13mm resleeve kit. Put Ferodo pads on it and it will lock up. Stock caliper.
    Those who have less than may have to have their rotors ground to remove the chrome plating I have heard so much about.
    The rotors from the factory were chromed, right?
     
    jsnorton likes this.
  5. xbacksideslider

    xbacksideslider VIP MEMBER

    Joined:
    Aug 19, 2010
    Do it. Re sized master with Ferodo Platinum pads is most cost effective improvement.

    After that the limiting factor is the disc’s diameter. I say that because the Platinum pads are limited by heat/fade when using stock disc.

    I once found a set of super stopping odd ball pads that worked great with the stock disc but not for long as they created so much heat, under hard use, that I overheated and cracked the disc.
     
    jsnorton likes this.
  6. JimC

    JimC

    Joined:
    Oct 12, 2007

    Keep in mind if it’s not the correct size, Brembo or whatever brand, you won’t have a good performing brake. A 16mm Brembo master with a 41 mm Brembo caliper won’t perform any better than a stock Norton brake.

    I used a 11mm Grimeca master with a 2 piston 41mm Grimeca caliper with a 12” floating disc and a SS brake line. Excellent progressive stopper. About half of $1200.
     
    Last edited: Jun 8, 2019
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  7. illf8ed

    illf8ed

    Joined:
    Dec 30, 2003
    I also have MadAss’ 13mm master cylinder that come with braided stainless line. Nice looking although I really don’t think it is that much improvement over the original on my ‘72 combat roadster. On one occasion with the original I locked the front at around 40mph when a Honda Accord was coming straight at me on the wrong side on a blind mountain right hander.
     
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  8. JimC

    JimC

    Joined:
    Oct 12, 2007

    Did you check the piston diameter of the master you replaced? You may of already had a resleeved master. Most report a very noticeable upgrade in performance with the MadAss master.
     
    Last edited: Jun 9, 2019
    jsnorton likes this.
  9. Onder

    Onder

    Joined:
    May 11, 2010
    13mm resleeve master, SS line, stock caliper and stock rotor (but drilled and lightened). You can lock it with two fingers.
    As for repeated hard use it will not be up to a newer system.
    Big enough difference to be worth it in my opinion.
     
    jsnorton likes this.
  10. alan hodge

    alan hodge VIP MEMBER

    Joined:
    Oct 10, 2017
    magura 13mm with ss hose and drilled fluid six disc and stock pads and rebuilt caliper with ss pistons works for me had to slam on brakes today as a matter of fact to avoid fool in car
     
  11. illf8ed

    illf8ed

    Joined:
    Dec 30, 2003
    Hi Jim

    After using the available rebuild kit in 1997 it has always worked quite well in my opinion. The reason I went with MadAss’ kit due to stock replacement seals usually lasted 2-3 years only.
     
  12. SteveA

    SteveA VIP MEMBER

    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2011
    Locking the front wheel only proves you have applied more stopping force than your tyre can cope with!

    Locking the wheel won't stop you faster, just get you nearer losing control. And if the surface has any moisture or grease you will just go down!

    What you want to do is stop as fast as possible without locking the wheel! Whatever the road conditions.

    Changing the master cylinder to caliper ratio, i.e. using a smaller bore master cylinder, does not improve the applied brake force as much as it improves your ability to progressively apply that force up to the maximum your system will generate, and help you maintain control of your braking and tyre grip whilst doing so!

    If you have huge and powerful hands you will generate enough force to stop well enough with the standard kit, until you lock the wheel.

    But if like me you have smaller hands, a smaller bore master is a must have.
     
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  13. SteveA

    SteveA VIP MEMBER

    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2011
    Not only do pads need to bed in, but materials change over time. So these pads may never feel the same as your old ones.

    Hopefully you bedded them in with lots of progressive braking and didn't immediately apply hard braking. That can kill off a set of pads by glazing them.

    GSXR750 twin discs and Bendix pads can stop you from 150mph with two fingers and no drama. You are not at risk of being pitched over the front if you learn progressive brake application!

    Gently on to max, gently off, no aggresive and rapid movements, particularly at the limits of adhesion.
     
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  14. jsnorton

    jsnorton

    Joined:
    Oct 10, 2018
    Yes Steve I understand about Threshold braking, I was just wondering if the setup would be capable of locking up the wheel. Thanks
     
  15. jsnorton

    jsnorton

    Joined:
    Oct 10, 2018
    Does anyone have a link to the Madass kit or any other ones ? I have checked AN and they are out of stock right now.
    Thanks everyone for your responses.
     
  16. dennisht

    dennisht

    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2017
    www.tritonmotorcycleparts.com I did the Madass master sleeve kit and it worked night and day over the stock one that never stopped the bike. Kit easy to do.
     
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  17. jimbo

    jimbo VIP MEMBER

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2004
    just installed a set of FA27 EBC pads, I am not sure what were on it before but these things really bite, almost need to upgrade my forks now. I have a Magura 13mm MC. A stock Norton caliper and a EBC disc( will not fit stock Norton hubs)

    https://www.ebay.com/itm/FA27-EBC-B...519790?hash=item46952dd5ee:g:37gAAOSwkCdc1b10

    https://www.ebay.com/itm/222000-Magura-225-Hydraulic-Clutch-Master-Cylinder-13Mm-Right/233194702917?epid=223396042&hash=item364b7cc845&enc=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&checksum=23319470291720546ed7d3ab4bc5b09d7bf19dafa1e9

    https://www.ebay.com/itm/FIT-HONDA-CB-750-FZ-FA-FB-78-82-EBC-LH-FRONT-OE-BRAKE-DISC/302315798624
     
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  18. comnoz

    comnoz VIP MEMBER

    Joined:
    Dec 10, 2008
    The master cylinder 'upgrade ' works very well as far as making the brake initially more powerful. You could probably lock the front wheel.

    BUT, if you are an aggressive rider or ride in the mountains you will find the smaller master makes it very easy to overheat the stock disk and then you will have no brakes. I had that setup on my bike for a while. It scared me a couple times and I went to a better setup. Jim
     
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  19. Adam M

    Adam M

    Joined:
    Mar 16, 2019
    I used 13 mm master for a season and went to 11 mm master after that.
    With it, stock lines and caliper with Ferodo Platinum pads I locked up my front wheel from 30 mph last season.
    And my bike is much heavier than Commando ( Trident ).
     
  20. swooshdave

    swooshdave

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2009
    Not a matter of weight of bike but size of brake pistons. I’m guessing the Trident ones are different from the Commando ones.
     
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