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Vincent V2 clutch question...

Vincent V2 clutch question...

Postby Fast Eddie » Mon Aug 17, 2015 1:06 pm

Chaps (especially Glen!)...

Does anyone know what clutch the multiplate 'V2' clutch kit is based on?

I'm searching for ideas on different plate types. Mine is very 'grabby' when pulling away, only when quite hot though to be fair.

I've read about fitting a 'dished plate' in there to cure this. Can anyone verify or comment on this? Does it work? If so how?!

I'd also like to know if Barnet or similar do friction plates that fit, and improve matters.

I have finally concluded that I need to improve my clutch and lower the first gear in order to improve the riding pleasure of my Vin. It didn't bother me until I moved 'into town' ... Or maybe I'm just getting older!?

Edit to the above... I am actually not sure my clutch is a V2 after all. It is probably one made and sold by Matt Holder, however, I don't know how similar it is / is not to the V2 and my issues with it, and questions re how to improve still stand.

Any pointers gratefully received...
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Re: Vincent V2 clutch question...

Postby worntorn » Mon Aug 17, 2015 4:15 pm

I have a Vee Two clutch in my Oz Rapide. It came with sintered bronze friction plates. I too found them very grabby.
By deglazing and cleaning them the clutch action could be made smooth, but a few hundred miles later the grabbiness returned.
The solution was to fit Barnett run-in-oil friction plates and run about 40ccs of Type F ATF in the compartment.
The plates are the same as a Kawi 900 or Z1 . They also fit a number of Kawi dirt bikes.
The Chicago Vincent section sells Cometic gaskets for the clutch cover, or you can make a regular gasket. The Cometic ones are very good, almost infinitely reusable and seal even when things are imperfect. The best might be to get the complete Cometic set, it is under £50 as I recall and includes a timing cover gasket, a pair of cylinder base gaskets, Carb stub gaskets, primary cover gasket, the clutch cover gasket and the mag pinion cover gasket, all in Cometic.
I have the email contact for the gaskets somewhere, can dig that out.
You might also have a small drain hole at the bottom of the clutch compartment. You will need to plug that. I used a small self tapping screw and some ARP thread sealer.
I also drilled one of the clutch cover screw holes right through so that the screw can be removed and this hole can be used to fill the compartment with 40ccs of atf. I use a syringe with tube attached to squirt the oil in, then some thread sealant on the screw before it goes back in. The ARP stuff works even if a bit of oil is present.

The oil Veetwo clutch is a beautiful thing.
Two up with luggage, starting on an uphill grade, no problem, perfectly smooth easy pull away

Nigel, I just spotted your edit
My Vee Two has a steel clutch basket and it came with bronze plates. There is a very similar clutch made by Neal Videsn and it is called the V3. He told me that he named it the V3 just to piss the Veetwo company owners!
It also is a good clutch, however it uses an alloy basket and , to my knowledge, was always supplied with fibre plates designed to run in oil.
So if you have a steel basket and bronze friction plates, I'm pretty sure it is a Veetwo.

Glen

These are the Barnett friction plates that fit the VeeTwo

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Re: Vincent V2 clutch question...

Postby Fast Eddie » Tue Aug 18, 2015 10:22 am

Thanks again Glen.

Mine has fibre plates and an alloy drum, so clearly ain't no V2!

I'll strip it out at the weekend and pot some pics.

From what little I have gleaned on the subject, I'm thinking mine is a Matt Holder produced item.

I'd like to try the Kelvar plates, I just need to find out what might fit. No-one I speak to here seems to know!
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Re: Vincent V2 clutch question...

Postby worntorn » Tue Aug 18, 2015 12:44 pm

Have you tried running it in atf?
You can forgo sealing up the compartment, just soak the plates in atf . Some go this route with v3s or v2s that have been changed to fibre friction plates. If the annual mileage is a thousand or less, a once per year soaking works OK.
If yours is not designed to run in oil, it will slip badly, but it's fairly easy to wash everything up with acetone or l. Thinner in order to get back to a dry clutch.
Might be worth a try.

Glen

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Re: Vincent V2 clutch question...

Postby Fast Eddie » Wed Aug 19, 2015 10:28 am

worntorn wrote:Have you tried running it in atf?
You can forgo sealing up the compartment, just soak the plates in atf . Some go this route with v3s or v2s that have been changed to fibre friction plates. If the annual mileage is a thousand or less, a once per year soaking works OK.
If yours is not designed to run in oil, it will slip badly, but it's fairly easy to wash everything up with acetone or l. Thinner in order to get back to a dry clutch.
Might be worth a try.

Glen


No I haven't tried ATF Glen, I will do so this weekend and see how it works.

BTW, the clutch I have is from David Holder (not Matt Holder)!

Do you know much about the V3 clutches and how they work? Patrick Godet tells me he used to use the Holder clutches (like mine) but has since gone on to use the latest dry clutch from V3, so I assume they must be good.
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Re: Vincent V2 clutch question...

Postby worntorn » Wed Aug 19, 2015 4:26 pm

The V3 is very similar to the VeeTwo other than the alloy basket vs steel for the Veetwo. I'm almost certain that the V3 also uses the Kawi 900 plates.
A friend has a V3 on his bike. No problems in 50,000. + miles of touring and he really beats on the bike.

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Re: Vincent V2 clutch question...

Postby Fast Eddie » Thu Aug 20, 2015 9:05 am

worntorn wrote:The V3 is very similar to the VeeTwo other than the alloy basket vs steel for the Veetwo. I'm almost certain that the V3 also uses the Kawi 900 plates.
A friend has a V3 on his bike. No problems in 50,000. + miles of touring and he really beats on the bike.

Glen


"No problems in 50,000. + miles of touring and he really beats on the bike" ... you should be a V3 salesman, where do I sign?!

Seriously, I've had mine apart at least 5 times in less than 4,000 miles... I may well stop pissing around and just buy a V3.

I note that V3 also do an ESA that they make bold claims about. Do you know anyone who's used one of these Glen?
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Re: Vincent V2 clutch question...

Postby worntorn » Thu Aug 20, 2015 11:53 am

I don't know about the esa other than I have not heard any negatives on it. Do NOT buy the v3 "stop oil leaks forever" package.
I purchased two of these kits and am slowly removing all traces of them as they fail at the most inopportune times.

Glen

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Re: Vincent V2 clutch question...

Postby Fast Eddie » Fri Aug 21, 2015 2:05 pm

My clutch basket is alloy Glen. Friction plates are alloy with bonded friction material.

Was very dusty inside when I stripped it out (stinks too)!

Clutch plates currently in the dishwasher (Missus doesn't know) !!

Will try it with the ATF and report back....
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Re: Vincent V2 clutch question...

Postby worntorn » Sat Aug 22, 2015 5:59 am

Nigel, you might try type f ATF as opposed to other types. The type F seems to offer greater grip between plates.


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Re: Vincent V2 clutch question...

Postby Fast Eddie » Sat Aug 22, 2015 11:46 am

Well, the clutch is most certainly not grabby with the ATF. Trouble is, it doesn't grab very well full stop! It's alright pootling around, but when I got it warmed up and opened the throttle properly, it slipped badly.

I don't know what type of ATF I have, or how to tell to be honest, but given the severity of clutch slip, I can't imagine a slightly different type or grade solving it.

I'll clean them back up and run it dry, but clean, which will last me the rest of this season. Then I'll have a re- think about different plate types or simply fit the V3 that Godet uses. If they're good on his 1330 motors, they'll manage on mine with half the springs!
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Re: Vincent V2 clutch question...

Postby worntorn » Sun Aug 23, 2015 7:10 am

Fast Eddie wrote:Well, the clutch is most certainly not grabby with the ATF. Trouble is, it doesn't grab very well full stop! It's alright pootling around, but when I got it warmed up and opened the throttle properly, it slipped badly.

I don't know what type of ATF I have, or how to tell to be honest, but given the severity of clutch slip, I can't imagine a slightly different type or grade solving it.

I'll clean them back up and run it dry, but clean, which will last me the rest of this season. Then I'll have a re- think about different plate types or simply fit the V3 that Godet uses. If they're good on his 1330 motors, they'll manage on mine with half the springs!


Sorry that didn't work out Nigel.
When you have the clutch plates out for washing, please post the measurements and I will compare them to the k900 plates I have here. If they happen to be the same, then you could fit the Barnett Kevlar plates shown above.
Suzuki clutches were also sometimes converted for use on Vincents, that may be what you've got there.

Glen

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Re: Vincent V2 clutch question...

Postby Fast Eddie » Sun Aug 23, 2015 9:07 am

Thanks Glen, I'm away working again now but should be abke to post Thur or Fri.
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Re: Vincent V2 clutch question...

Postby usefulidiot » Tue Aug 25, 2015 9:39 am

I have a multiplate clutch from coventry spares in my rapide that they say is a copy of the V3. The plates are from a modern triumph bonneville....there is a spring steel plate that is supposed to be somewhere in the middle of the pack to help with smooth release and engagement. I didnt realize this at first and mine was a bit grabby. I made sure it was in the middle of the pack and it has worked fine ever since...except for the neverending search for maximum lift in the mechanism so that i can find neutral....

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Re: Vincent V2 clutch question...

Postby Fast Eddie » Tue Aug 25, 2015 2:29 pm

usefulidiot wrote:I have a multiplate clutch from coventry spares in my rapide that they say is a copy of the V3. The plates are from a modern triumph bonneville....there is a spring steel plate that is supposed to be somewhere in the middle of the pack to help with smooth release and engagement. I didnt realize this at first and mine was a bit grabby. I made sure it was in the middle of the pack and it has worked fine ever since...except for the neverending search for maximum lift in the mechanism so that i can find neutral....


I didn't know the dished plain plate was supposed to be 'in the middle of the pack'.

Now, can someone explain to me why this is so...?

And, can someone explain ho wand why the dished plate works to solve grabbing...??
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