HI all,

A couple of questions....
I was starting to get a bit worried that my bike was a bitsa... L.A.B. had advised mine would be a Mk11A if the number was in a particular range, so I had a look:
Looking at the log book, the engine number is in the 3084XX range, but the frame number was 1032XX! This didn't fit with what I'd read, so I had a look.
The number stamped on the headstocck is 850-F1032XX, so fits with a late '73 early '74 frame, based on the Atlantic Green data
http://atlanticgreen.com/index.php?opti ... r&Itemid=4
Am I right in assuming that the frame number beginning with 3XXXXX is the VIN number stamped on the alloy plate?
As mine was removed before I got the bike, is there any possibility of (a) establishing the original VIN? and (b) obtaining the correct VIN Plate?

The other question... anyone know of a UK source for the Pacific blue?

B+Bogus wrote:Am I right in assuming that the frame number beginning with 3XXXXX is the VIN number stamped on the alloy plate?
As mine was removed before I got the bike, is there any possibility of (a) establishing the original VIN? and (b) obtaining the correct VIN Plate?

The frame plate number, engine number and gearbox number (should be stamped on the top gearbox lug?) would normally be considered to be the vehicle's identity, and all three numbers would have matched when the bike left the factory.

However (there's generally a "however" with these bikes, isn't there!) a certain amount of confusion has arisen due to the extra frame number normally found stamped on the headstocks of 850 models which ended up being recorded as the frame number when the vehicle was first registered.

850 frames that have the additional F-number are supposedly the ones made in Italy, and made from metric size tubing.

As to the discrepancy with the Atlantic Green data, I'm not sure if the F frames were used in numerical order along with the engine/plate numbers or not?
Frequently batches of bikes were built out of sequence, and the plate date stamp cannot always be relied upon to give a totally accurate indication of when the bike was actually built, and the majority of the factory records for the 850 models apparently no longer exist, so there is no way to check!

850 frames normally have their part number stamped in small faint digits on the front face of the left hand fuel tank bracket? MkII/IIA frames are part 065404. MkI (and maybe IA?) 850 frames were part 064140. The MkII/A frames should have the extended inner shock mounting plates used to help support the seat loop?

If you send a copy of the registration document to Norvil then they should stamp you up a new plate?: http://www.norvilmotorcycle.co.uk/framechas.htm (see note at the bottom of their page)

B+Bogus wrote:The other question... anyone know of a UK source for the Pacific blue?

RS Motorbike paint would be one likely source: http://motorbikepaint.co.uk/

Thanks L.A.B.,

Once again, a great help - it seems Norvil will only replace an existing VIN plate - understandably! - so I'll have to do without

I just measured the frame tubes...the main spine is 57.25mm, the brace tube is 25.4mm. This sort of contradicts what I've read in a number of places regarding Italian Frames and/or metric tubing
Incidentally, the frame is bare metal - just been sandblasted; part number 06-4140

The red plates are commonly available from Norton dealers (watch out because there are several sorts).

If you're in the North West, I'd suggest a phone call to RGM to see what sort of supporting documentation he needs.

The info on tube diameters is interesting. The reputed correlation between Italian manufacture / F numbers is unproven and seems to have begun at Fairspares. The more information that is exchanged via forums such as this, the better a picture we can build up. We don't even know if all Italian frames were metric.

I bought a spare plate on eBay a few years ago - two types were available. Try your local machine shop to get numbers stamped. Most of the shops I've seen have various sizes.

B+Bogus wrote: it seems Norvil will only replace an existing VIN plate - understandably! - so I'll have to do without

As it says:

" Certification plates are sold blank. If you require us to stamp your certification plate, you will need to send us either the old plate by recorded delivery, so that we can destroy it upon creating a new one, or you will have to send us a copy of your original log book."

By "original log book" I took that to mean the current V5C registration document? As, by rights, the old "log books" were normally exchanged for the (now obsolete) V5 documents that replaced them? Perhaps a phone call to Norvil would clarify that?

Nevertheless, you can still buy the bare plate and get it stamped, as your V5C has the F number recorded as the frame number, technically you would not be interfering with the frame number if you were to do so.

B+Bogus wrote:I just measured the frame tubes...the main spine is 57.25mm, the brace tube is 25.4mm. This sort of contradicts what I've read in a number of places regarding Italian Frames and/or metric tubing

...I just knew somebody was going to say that...sooner or later!

L.A.B. wrote: Nevertheless, you can still buy the bare plate and get it stamped, as your V5C has the F number recorded as the frame number, technically you would not be interfering with the frame number if you were to do so.

I must read things more carefully!
Would I be going too far if I stamped the VIN plate with the Engine number (yes, the gearbox has the same number)?...it makes me a tad nervous to do so without being able to confirm its right! That said, it isn't the legal identifier in the UK

L.A.B. wrote: ...I just knew somebody was going to say that...sooner or later!

Sorry it had to be me!

B+Bogus wrote:Would I be going too far if I stamped the VIN plate with the Engine number (yes, the gearbox has the same number)?...it makes me a tad nervous to do so without being able to confirm its right!

The number stamped on the plate should match the engine and gearbox number, as that is how it would have (should have?) left the factory?

The number stamped on the plate should match the engine and gearbox number, as that is how it would have (should have?) left the factory?

Now all you need to do is determine what month and year to use for the build date that is also stamped on the red tag!

VIN plate for sale new on AUSTRALIAN Ebay suit 73 on unstamped. Bid at $15 AU
Ian

Hi
I have an 850 Mk2A Which the red plate on the headstock is stamped 12-73, suggesting it was made in December 1973.
It has been registered in The USA as 1974.
The numbers on the frame plate, engine and gearbox all match and are stamped as 3116**.
Dunno if this helps.
Stu

Scruff wrote:VIN plate for sale new on AUSTRALIAN Ebay suit 73 on unstamped. Bid at $15 AU
Ian

I bought my blank MKIII plate from Walridge and paid about $12 Canadian I recall, and I simply restamped it myself as I had stamps available to use at work. I did notice the replacement was slightly different than the original I removed prior to powder coat.

Hi Andy,

This URL may be helpful.
http://atlanticgreen.com/commandoframes.htm
frame part number 06-4140 is from '73 model year. In the site above 309911 engine number has a build date Nov '73 and frame number F102329.

My MK2A has the V5 with the frame number listed as the number stamped directly on the frame. The red VIN plate is stamped with the engine number, build date is 11/73 and the plate looks original.

My Combat was missing the plate but its V5 had matching engine and frame numbers, I sent the engine/frame number to the NOC for a dating certificate and used this to get a Norton specialist to stamp up a new plate and also showed my V5.

The Vintage Motorcycle Club has the factory records and in fact both 750 and 850 records are a bit hit and miss. There are no obvious books mising, it's just that not all of the machines seemed to get noted down and round about mid 1975, it just petered out.

I searched for both mine (72 750 and 75 850) and neither were there but bikes a few either side were. Both bikes were sold new in the UK.

You may get lucky with a mail to the VMCC library. I'd guess that most bikes are there but 'Sod's Law' meant that mine weren't.