Various Seeley Frames (Mks)

Re: Various Seeley Frames (Mks)

Postby SteveA » Tue Feb 28, 2012 4:20 am

beng wrote:
Here is a Mk4 Seeley for you to examine, at least it is claimed to be:

Image


No it isn't and definately, no it isn't...

This is the frame of a bike I have had the pleasure of riding when fitted with a 750 twin, yes, but the frame was built by John Caffrey, so it is a Vendetta...read the thread you got this from in detail.....the design is indeed similar to a Seeley Mk4...but...

History, that is the guy who actually built it will tell you that the frame was built with the permission of Colin Seeley after Seeley had ceased production...

And the owner is particularly proud of what it is and has confirmation from Mr Caffrey, who also manufactured several other frames that were built into successful bikes in the 1970s.

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Re: Various Seeley Frames (Mks)

Postby SteveA » Tue Feb 28, 2012 4:31 am

Dances with Shrapnel wrote:Nice looking and as I recall them. Some sort of plating.

What was the general consensus when comaparing Mk 3 to a Mk 4 with regards to durability, weight and performance. One would assume a gradual improvement of concept as one moves through the Marks but not necessarily the case as it could be to simplify manufacture (Mk 2 has more bends than a Mk 3 or Mk 4). The Mk3/Mk4 frames could be a vision for future plans to accomodate a wider variety of motors which would have been a sharp market strategy considering the era.

Were Mk4s always fitted with bolt in down tubes and were the Mk3s ever fitted with bolt in down tubes?


In late '75 I bought a Rickman Chassis, having evaluated the more sucessful at that time Seeley Mk4, which was more expensive and came less complete.....

The issue was that this was a one shot for me, based on a windfall (of sorts), so I wanted durability as well as handling....everybody I spoke to with a Seeley Commando at that time had cracked the frame at some point!, and from my memory they were all in frames with no bottom tubes....

As for the plating, this is the only nickel plated one I have seen, Seeley originals were painted....

But I only started racing in '75 so don't make assumptions I am saying something I am not.... :roll:

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Re: Various Seeley Frames (Mks)

Postby Seeley920 » Tue Feb 28, 2012 6:46 am

Matt Spencer wrote:1970 Plan View . ! :shock: Any SEELY is acceptable . As long as its GREEN & has ORANGE Exhausts . :? :shock:

Image

Mick Grant , I.o.M. . The others a P R Commando .



It's not a Seeley, but a Jim Lee frame
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Re: Various Seeley Frames (Mks)

Postby Seeley920 » Tue Feb 28, 2012 6:48 am

Holmeslice wrote:DWS,

As promised, some shots of a couple of Seeleys.

Another MK4, ready to race. A Gus Kuhn Seeley 750:
Image

That isn't a genuine Kuhn one, I know the original owner who built it new!



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Re: Various Seeley Frames (Mks)

Postby Dances with Shrapnel » Tue Feb 28, 2012 2:29 pm

What is the name of the original owner who built this Seeley?
Is he still around and can he be reached to corroborate your assertion?
I am sure the current owner of the bike would want to know this if it was represented to him as a Guss Kuhn build.
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Re: Various Seeley Frames (Mks)

Postby Seeley920 » Tue Feb 28, 2012 8:08 pm

Yes the original owner is still around and I can introduce Kenny to him when he comes over to the UK. When it was sold about 5 years ago, it was not represented as a Gus Kuhn bike in the ad. I have known this bike for almost 30 years, and raced against it many times.,
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Re: Various Seeley Frames (Mks)

Postby Dances with Shrapnel » Tue Feb 28, 2012 8:26 pm

OK. Thanks. Sometimes I get my knickers in a knot now and then.

So was the bike/rider fast?
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Re: Various Seeley Frames (Mks)

Postby Holmeslice » Tue Feb 28, 2012 8:55 pm

Seeley920 wrote:Yes the original owner is still around and I can introduce Kenny to him when he comes over to the UK. When it was sold about 5 years ago, it was not represented as a Gus Kuhn bike in the ad. I have known this bike for almost 30 years, and raced against it many times.,


Not my bike, so am not completely up to date on it, but this link tells a bit about the Seeley MK4 in question's history. Not a team bike, but appears the frame was sold by Kuhn in May '72, at least according to Gus Kuhn themselves:

http://www.guskuhn.net/GKMLtd/Feedback/Levitt.htm

I will be at Cadwell in May. See you then?
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Re: Various Seeley Frames (Mks)

Postby Seeley920 » Wed Feb 29, 2012 4:00 am

Hi Kenny,

Yes, I should be at Cadwell, and hope to see you there!

DWS, the bike wasn't exceptionally quick (it normally had a 3s cam etc, but at the time all races were push start so compression wasn't particularly high) but a good rider.....he now races a Rob North triple though, so gone over to the dark side :o
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Re: Various Seeley Frames (Mks)

Postby beng » Wed Feb 29, 2012 8:29 am

Matt Spencer wrote:The front one is a 2 beer frame , whereas the one behind is 4 beer , with differant gussets , mounts 7 shock angle . :D


The bike in the photo is the prototype Mk2, later on they did make them with a continuous tube bent around the swingarm gusset, and there are photos of those in Seeley's book.

I suspect that Seeley, using as he says a plumber's pipe bending apparatus did not have the capability to make a lot of bends. It was during Mk2 production that he got a first-rate Italian tube bending machine and a mill to miter tube ends. So later Mk2 frames and the ones made by Reynolds were probably much nicer than the earlier ones and the prototype for sure.

At the 1968 Earl's Court show, the big show were makers rolled out and showcased their goods, Seeley boasts all bikes at the show were produced entirely at their shop, and they have the later design Mk2 with better bends. His Earl's Court display has the usual braces of AMC powered bikes and also the fabulous Fath Four powered bike, and a wallboard covered with AMC and Manx single racing parts.

There were no blueprints for the Seeley Mk1 frame. For the Mk2 frame Ken Sprayson made drawings after some of them were there to measure so that Reynolds could make a batch and help out Seeley who had a lot of things going on that year, racing sidecars in the World Championship, buying out the AMC and Norton Manx singles stock, making bikes, running a dealership and getting the AMC and Manx spares business going again. Holy Cow.....

Since Sprayson and Reynolds had drawings and a lot more experience making frames, the Mk2 that they put out could have been the most consistent as far as build quality and consistency. Seeley did not sit still though and in a very short time his frames evolved to new Mks each year the first three years.

His book is not written for collectors, historians or anyone in particular, it is just a story told in a first-person way and there is no order to it or any way to look anything up. The only information in the index is the names of people. People seem to have been the most important thing in Seeley's life and most of the book is on their history, what they did in relation to the sport and racing. There is much written about friendships and the deaths in racing of people around him.

There is not any serial numbers or production numbers for any of his products. Any information on the bikes etc. has to be gleaned by careful reading of the text and storyline and photos. But it is a fabulous story, the kind where you can not put it down once you start reading.

One interesting detail I noticed was that there were no disk brakes on any of the bikes in the book which covers his story through 1969. They mostly all used his in-house Robinson-built brake.

The book is really the story of the racing and racers in the U.K. and Europe during the 1950's and early 1960's more than anything else, and it does as good a job of doing this from a personal perspective that I have ever seen.

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Re: Various Seeley Frames (Mks)

Postby swooshdave » Wed Feb 29, 2012 1:38 pm

So no one knows approximately how many Seelys were made?
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Re: Various Seeley Frames (Mks)

Postby hobot » Mon Mar 05, 2012 9:23 pm

Modified Seeley BSA racer These two shots are of a MK3 Seeley chassis with a BSA Goldstar engine and Quaife 6 speed transmission. My friend Craig did the basic engine installation, and then I did a lot of the detail work, including the extra frame bracing. The bike's owner said the bracing firmed up the handling noticeably
Image


Another Seeley BSA racer This picture was sent to me by Tomas Tallkvist. It shows him on his Seeley Goldstar winning a race at the Bothniaring in Jurva, Finland. Tomas is doing a nice job of developing the chassis and engine on this bike.
Image

Seeley / Yamsel.
Colin Seeley in England made frames to suit Yamaha twins from the late sixties and into the seventies. (Michel du Maine)
Image


And a Seeley Monocoupe
http://www.raceretro.com/showcontent.as ... 0000000205
Image
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Re: Various Seeley Frames (Mks)

Postby SeeleyWeslake » Tue Mar 06, 2012 10:27 pm

Here's some more Seeley Weslake pictures I took while spectating at various UK CRMC meetings.

First one is Dave Nourish's own 850 Seeley Weslake, taken in the pits at Chimay in 2008. Chimay is one of the classic Belgium real roadrace courses,ie a mini TT. I think Dave's rider Paul Coward had at least 1 win on that weekend. The sister bike to this one, the 500 version has taken part in the Classic Manx Grand Prix for about the last 20 years and has finished as high as 2nd. Dave N's bikes don't look especailly flash or shiny but they are extremely functional. This frame is a Roger Titchmarsh Mk 2. Tank is a special large one ( 6 gallons?) they use for the IOM.

Image


The next pic is Ken Platts Mk2 750 ( I believe) taken at Croft in 2002. It looks like it might be a Barber replica frame rather than a Titchmarsh but I couldn't tell you anything more about the frame. The next year at Croft Dave Nourish lent Mr Platt his own 850 engine and his rider ( Mike Hose ) preceeded to cleanup in the unlimited class, even beating Mr Gourlay on one of the Rob North triples.

Image

I'm curious about how many different people have done replica Seeley frames, the Mk 2, 3 & 4s. ( not interested in the Suzukes Hondas and Kawas)
I know of Titchmash, Barber, Glyn Poole and Norman White.
Does anyone know the builder that supplied George Beale and Andy Molnar? Did Spondon ever do any?

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Re: Various Seeley Frames (Mks)

Postby SeeleyWeslake » Tue Mar 06, 2012 10:59 pm

More Seeleys
First is Roger Titchmarsh's own bike. It's a 500 in his own replica Mk3 frame but with added engine hangers a la Mk4. Roger explained that when he was actively campaigning this bike in the 90s, weight reduction became an unhealthy obsesssion. It weighs 245 lbs and has magnesium crankcases and gearbox as well as home made magnesium wheel hubs. And a lot of titanium parts. He even took to glueing the fairing screen on instead of using bolts to reduce the turbulence their heads created. I believe he's currently working on making it a 750 but gets easliy distracted away from it with paying jobs.

Image

This one is the bike Roger was competeing against, Bob Heath's Seeley Mk2 replica G50. Ironically Roger made the extra lightweight frame for it. This bike is the reason some classic race series now have minimum weight limits. The story goes that Dick Hunt offered to make Bob Heath some magnesium fork yokes to make him quit drilling holes in the ally ones. It held the classic Manx Grand Prix lap record for many years ( at 108mph I think)

Image

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Re: Various Seeley Frames (Mks)

Postby splatt » Wed Mar 07, 2012 1:52 am

Any one mind telling /showing me how the rear wheel adjusters are done ?
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