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Tickle T-5 .

Re: Tickle T-5 .

Postby wakeup » Fri Jan 31, 2014 4:53 pm

It's always been my understanding that there is little or no difference between the stiffness of 531/ T45 tubing and similar sizes of "ordinary" cold drawn steel tubing, until they were welded, when the standard steel tubing would loose some of it's properties and the 531/T45 type of tubing would not. This would make the frame made of 531 or T45 either stronger for the same weight (if identical dimension tubing was used), or lighter for similar strength. For production the standard steel tubing was significantly cheaper than the 531/T45 variety, hence its use.
Any comments from the experts?
cheers
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Re: Tickle T-5 .

Postby acotrel » Sat Feb 01, 2014 9:10 am

I don't know about 531 tube, however a friend has made frames form locally available chrome-moly tube, and it is quite difficult to bend - the spring-back is significantly different. The last one he made was for an SF750 Laverda - was quite successful, however not so easy.
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Re: Tickle T-5 .

Postby Rohan » Sun Feb 02, 2014 2:45 pm

Elementary my dear Watson.
The tensile strength/yield points of mild steel is quite low, so it is relatively easy to bend to a new shape.
Hi tensile steels like 531 and chrome-moly are made of stronger stuff, so they need (a lot) more muscle to force into a new shape.
Reshaping steel goes beyond the point where springiness comes into it...

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Re: Tickle T-5 .

Postby eby_at » Sun Feb 16, 2014 1:47 pm

Dear Mark!
Do you think, it´s possible to get the other half of the sketch?
I´m not a member of the Norton Owners club, so I cannot write to Phil Hannam personally

Do you (or anyone else) have the rest of this drawing?
I wanna make a CAD-sketch of it.
greetings from austria
where the cows are hopping over the meadow
and not the cangaroos
sincerely
eberhard
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wher the cows are hopping over the meadow
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and not the cangarooooooos!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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Re: Tickle T-5 .

Postby Time Warp » Sun Feb 16, 2014 2:22 pm

The sketch is all there but screen resolution will show it cropped.
Right click save on it or right click view image to see all of it.
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Re: Tickle T-5 .

Postby Rohan » Sun Feb 16, 2014 6:59 pm

The frame drawing is only half there - unless someone in the NOC can get in touch with Mr Hannam.

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Re: Tickle T-5 .

Postby eby_at » Mon Feb 17, 2014 7:26 am

Rohan wrote:The frame drawing is only half there - unless someone in the NOC can get in touch with Mr Hannam.

Dear Rohan!
I tried last week, but I fear because of his hw-crash, he´s unable to repost, therefore my question to this community
Greetings from Austria
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and not the cangarooooooos!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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Re: Tickle T-5 .

Postby Rohan » Mon Feb 17, 2014 5:25 pm

He seems to have recovered his files, try again ?

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Re: Tickle T-5 .

Postby eby_at » Mon Mar 03, 2014 4:13 am

got the complete file last week from a swiss guy.
I just began to transform into CAD and i will put on file to th eboard
Greetings from Austria
wher the cows are hopping over the meadow
.
.
.
.
.
and not the cangarooooooos!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

eby_at
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Re: Tickle T-5 .

Postby johnm » Mon Mar 03, 2014 5:02 am

eby_at wrote:got the complete file last week from a swiss guy.
I just began to transform into CAD and i will put on file to th eboard



That would be excellent !!!!

Thankyou

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Re: Tickle T-5 .

Postby Fast Eddie » Mon Mar 03, 2014 9:40 am

My understanding is that 531 work hardens, hence T45 being the choice of most these days.

A T45 frame is both stiffer and stronger than stock.
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Re: Tickle T-5 .

Postby eby_at » Mon Mar 03, 2014 1:10 pm

johnm wrote:
eby_at wrote:got the complete file last week from a swiss guy.
I just began to transform into CAD and i will put on file to th eboard



That would be excellent !!!!

Thankyou

Ik do my very best, but i cannot promise a fix date
Greetings from Austria
wher the cows are hopping over the meadow
.
.
.
.
.
and not the cangarooooooos!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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Re: Tickle T-5 .

Postby acotrel » Mon Mar 03, 2014 1:24 pm

Rohan wrote:Elementary my dear Watson.
The tensile strength/yield points of mild steel is quite low, so it is relatively easy to bend to a new shape.
Hi tensile steels like 531 and chrome-moly are made of stronger stuff, so they need (a lot) more muscle to force into a new shape.
Reshaping steel goes beyond the point where springiness comes into it...


It is not about the muscle required to bend the higher strength steel. A decent tube bender can usually cope with ease. If you have a tube bender and usually bend mild steel, you don't get the same radius bend with the same former when you use chrome moly tube. The spring-back is different when you release the clamps on the bender. It means that making a frame from chrome moly takes more work if you want to get the right shaped bends. Also the temperature of the tube when bending is important if you don't want nasty things to happen.

'Reshaping steel goes beyond the point where springiness comes into it' - Love this - have you ever made a frame or are you working on supposition again Sherlock ?
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Re: Tickle T-5 .

Postby Rohan » Mon Mar 03, 2014 2:34 pm

Go away and read up on The Youngs Modulus of steels (elasticity).
Then report back with your findings.

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Re: Tickle T-5 .

Postby acotrel » Wed Mar 05, 2014 12:48 pm

Young's modulus has nothing to do with this. If you bend chrome moly tube you obviously go beyond it's limit of elasticity however it still retains it's strength. It doesn't simply accept a bend and sit there with no spring. When you release the clamps on the tube bender, it must spring back. Even mild steel does that. I suggest you are looking at this with an engineer's mindset, the difference is the reason many engineers talk to trades people before committing themselves. The practice is different to the theory. In one factory in which I worked we had a sheet metal shop which used steel dies to form steel. Spring-back was always something which had to be coped with. Different materials give different results.
Do you believe titanium tube would accept a bend ? I think you could put it in a mandrel bender and pull it around a former and when you released the clamps it would come out straight.
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