The Keith1069 Headsteady

by **swooshdave** » Mon Mar 15, 2010 8:21 pm

Keith1069 wrote:Thanks for that! I certainly can't take credit as it was based on Mike Taglieri's steel version which I copied as a test and then remade in aluminum. Mine started with 3/16", 2" x 1-1/2" angle with 3/8" rod ends and SS bolts. I thought this may not be heavy enough guage in aluminum due to vibration/fracturing but since the rod ends allow the engine to move vertically and fore and aft it only has to support cornering side loads. Sorry I don't have a list of parts to hand but basically it is the head base plate mounted using existing fasteners, 2pcs 2-1/2" 3/8" bolts and nylocs, a half nut, washers to shim the fore/aft and vertical position of the rod (parallel to engine in both planes), two identical side plates (one faces in, one faces out to attach the vertical bolt), 6 pcs M4 mushroom head capscrews (could be 8 or 10-32) to bolt the side plates and it's baseplate together. Alternatively, if you can weld aluminum that would be a better way. Dimension between the side plates is 1-1/2". I've got to lift the tank to retorque the head so I'll see if I can get more dimensions if anyone's interested but due to individual bike tolerances you will need to adjust the rod end and shimming for best alignment. Only downside I see to this is that there is no vertical support for the ISOs. Removing the original top cotton reel mounts lets the engine drop further and may be a longer term problem with the front ISO. I don't know and I guess that's where the Taylor + Mk3 spring is better.

norvil-head-steady-worn-out-fix-t3798.html

While I would really love the Comstock head steady I really like the simplicity of this one. It's certainly an improvement on the original iron one.

I think there is a local Metal Supermarket and a 18in 2x2x3/16 piece is roughly $15.

ALUMINUM ANGLE 6061T6
(2" x 2" x 0.188" ALUMINUM 6061 T6 ANGLE)

Then I found these ball joints.

Both from McMaster-Carr for $15. Does it matter if they are right or left hand threads? I was thinking both right handed.

I think the ball joints are the right size. What I should probably do is get the aluminum and then confirm the dimensions, unless Keith can give me more measurements. I wouldn't complain if there were more pictures too. :mrgreen:

I also wonder if there is some way to mount the MkIII spring and if that might help suspend the engine.

by **Keith1069** » Tue Mar 16, 2010 3:41 am

Those'll do fine, just as long as they have some stiction (mine have a 'carbon' insert) and enough thread length. You don't want the really cheap loose fit type you might use/be OK on gear linkages etc. Either LH or RH thread work. Mine are LH just because that was all the chosen supplier had in stock at the time. If you use a pair of opposite thread females and a piece of opposite threaded bar you can have more accurate (infinite) adjustment but with a single handed thread 1/2 turn +/- is OK. But I think you'd end up with quite a long rod end assy. I have to take the tank off later to do the inlet clearances, will see if I can get some more measurements.

by **Keith1069** » Tue Mar 16, 2010 7:15 am

These may help......my crude rendering using 'paint', tried Adobe photo but too complicated for me! One dimension missing is front to back of base which is 2" overall incl external angle. Aluminum is 3/16", not sure of the grade but it's quite hard. Top brkts are not identical, RH is shortened. A better job could be made in 1/4" x 2-3/4" and you wouldn't need to double up where I did. RH brkt could then use the main bolt to clamp it to the LH side. Those screws on mine are M5 x 12mm. Top brkt bolts are std 5/16" UNF x 3/4" long, RH bolt 3/8" UNF x 2", lower bolt 3/8" x 1-5/8" UNF. Rod ends are 3/8" LH male and female. There is a half nut on lower bolt with washers to adjust and a full lock nut on RH side with full nut to adjust. A spacer would be nicer there.

by **Coco** » Tue Mar 16, 2010 7:23 am

[quote="swooshdave"]I think there is a local Metal Supermarket and a 18in 2x2x3/16 piece is roughly $15.[quote]

Wow, that's rather expensive. I sell that stuff for $3.19 ft CAD to anyone just walking off the street.

by **swooshdave** » Tue Mar 16, 2010 8:46 am

Coco wrote:
swooshdave wrote:I think there is a local Metal Supermarket and a 18in 2x2x3/16 piece is roughly $15.

Wow, that's rather expensive. I sell that stuff for $3.19 ft CAD to anyone just walking off the street.

Any problems shipping down south?

by **swooshdave** » Tue Mar 16, 2010 8:53 am

Keith1069 wrote:These may help......my crude rendering using 'paint', tried Adobe photo but too complicated for me! One dimension missing is front to back of base which is 2" overall incl external angle. Aluminum is 3/16", not sure of the grade but it's quite hard. Top brkts are not identical, RH is shortened. A better job could be made in 1/4" x 2-3/4" and you wouldn't need to double up where I did. RH brkt could then use the main bolt to clamp it to the LH side. Those screws on mine are M5 x 12mm. Top brkt bolts are std 5/16" UNF x 3/4" long, RH bolt 3/8" UNF x 2", lower bolt 3/8" x 1-5/8" UNF. Rod ends are 3/8" LH male and female. There is a half nut on lower bolt with washers to adjust and a full lock nut on RH side with full nut to adjust. A spacer would be nicer there.

That is completely awesome. Thanks for putting that together. :mrgreen:

Can you confirm this dimension? This will let me know if I can use the ball joints or if I need to use the rod ends.

by **Coco** » Tue Mar 16, 2010 9:33 am

swooshdave wrote:
Any problems shipping down south?

Yeah, after shipping it would not be very economically friendly. I have tons of this stuff since I sell aluminum and stainless for a living.

by **Keith1069** » Tue Mar 16, 2010 9:38 am

Can you confirm this dimension? This will let me know if I can use the ball joints or if I need to use the rod ends.

That's 1-5/16" with a 0.040" washer under bolt head. Best of luck.....

by **cash** » Tue Mar 16, 2010 9:48 am

Keith1069,
I think you've made a great job of your link mounting. I reckon you should try to fit the Mk3 spring thingy you'll find the reduction in low frequency vibes well wort it.

Cash

by **swooshdave** » Tue Mar 16, 2010 9:53 am

Keith1069 wrote:
Can you confirm this dimension? This will let me know if I can use the ball joints or if I need to use the rod ends.

That's 1-5/16" with a 0.040" washer under bolt head. Best of luck.....

Ball joints only had about 1" so I'll have to go the way you did. Thanks!

Plan B:

$12 for both.

Although I might be able to get away with the ball joint on this part. It look like it's less than an inch.

by **rick in seattle** » Tue Mar 16, 2010 10:43 am

Keith and Dave,

It's been fun following your discussion and design. At the end, however, you touched on an important point, which is the absence of the Mk3 headsteady spring. When you set up the spring according to the shop manual, the spring pulls upwards with a 140 pound force, i.e., with a force equal to the combined weight of the engine, gearbox, and cradle. While the axis of the spring is slightly off vertical by 20 degrees (the jugs themselves are 9 degrees off vertical), the spring in its static position supports 94% of the weight of the loaded cradle, and effectively unweights the front iso (and most of the rear iso as well). As Cash points out, this plays an important role in filtering out the high-frequency vibrations of the engine. Think of it as a coupled spring-dashpot system. IMHO. adding the Mk3 spring will improve your design by allowing the front and rear isos to operate at a better neutral point.

by **Keith1069** » Tue Mar 16, 2010 11:09 am

That's 3/4" from top of bolt head to rod end ball face but there are two 0.040" washers under the half nut. From bracket rear face to ball face is 5/16".
Rod ends have 1-5/8" dimension from ball centre to end face or threaded end in case of male part. Also I tapped the main bracket and should have tapped the sandwiched top brackets for the 3/8" bolt. Makes it nice and tight for mounting and adjustment. When you assemble put it all together once you know everything fits and you can just drop it in place as an assy. What you can't do is assemble the rod end assy afterwards without removing either 3/8 bolt, so adjusting for parallel and length etc takes a bit of faffing around.

I reckon you should try to fit the Mk3 spring thingy you'll find the reduction in low frequency vibes well wort it.

Cash, I thought about that with the front mount now taking all the weight and no help from the cotton reels. I don't have a problem with the low frequency really, yes it does shake a bit and has fractured fairing brackets and makes quite a draught at 2000 rpm via the screen, it really moves some air!

by **splatt** » Tue Mar 16, 2010 11:13 am

A couple of tidy up improvements, and things to look out for. Use offset angle,left hand side goes right across and the right hand bracket sits on top of it, the bolt for the rod end will hold it togehter, no need for the plate screwed on the bottom. Be carefull how far out it sticks out that side as it may hit the tank tunnel.I mounted mine closer in and used a contersunk bolt for the rod end mount, that way it fitted under the 5/16 frame mounting bolt. I did mount a spring type thingy, it is not impossible.Also used 3/8 rod ends, reckon 5/16 would actually be large enough, it is for Howard Rotavators and they are using a simmillar idea.

by **Keith1069** » Tue Mar 16, 2010 11:31 am

IMHO. adding the Mk3 spring will improve your design by allowing the front and rear isos to operate at a better neutral point.

Rick, your message came through while I was cooking dinner!! I never realised that spring was so supportive. I thought it was to help with the lower frequency shakes but could it do something about my higher frequency vibes? While not a terminally serious issue I'd like to address? Have tried everything, crank balance and shaft runout, loose Iso's, stuff touching, gearbox shaft runout etc. I do know from bent frame experience that if the small diameter buffers touch then vibes are akin to a solid mounted engine. After a blowup 7 years ago the LH front mount tab was 7mm forward of the RH. After the engine rebuild I had to force the bolt into place and loaded the Iso's so heavily that anything above 3000 rpm made it vibe so badly it was unrideable. When I drew up the mount full size with that amount of deflection the LH small buffer was touching the tube. That's all changed and now have verniers installed with quite soft rubbers and a straightened frame, squared Iso tubes, offset same front and rear etc. so everything slips into place without force.
Something else to think about, thanks!!

by **swooshdave** » Tue Mar 16, 2010 11:56 am

splatt wrote:A couple of tidy up improvements, and things to look out for. Use offset angle,left hand side goes right across and the right hand bracket sits on top of it, the bolt for the rod end will hold it togehter, no need for the plate screwed on the bottom. Be carefull how far out it sticks out that side as it may hit the tank tunnel.I mounted mine closer in and used a contersunk bolt for the rod end mount, that way it fitted under the 5/16 frame mounting bolt. I did mount a spring type thingy, it is not impossible.Also used 3/8 rod ends, reckon 5/16 would actually be large enough, it is for Howard Rotavators and they are using a simmillar idea.

And... pics!?!?! :mrgreen:

The Keith1069 Headsteady

The Keith1069 Headsteady

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