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The 650 Norton thread

Norton Models (not Commando or P11)

Re: The 650 Norton thread

Postby Rohan » Sat Dec 10, 2016 11:08 pm

Are the bumps in both ports ?

Even if other folks don't have them, it could be some unknown tuners' secret trick to getting the exhaust flowing better than stock (!!). Unless you try them before grinding them off, may never know.

There is a famous history and story of Nortons tuning tricks and head/port shapes.
Back prior to WW1, all Norton engines of some models were tested around Brooklands track, in a slave frame kept exactly for that task. The Brooklands Road Special in various models was certified to have done 75 or 80 mph - some engines were faster than others, some considerably. The really quick ones were put aside, and the head and port shapes studied to see why this may be so - through variations in the castings - thats how better combustion chamber shapes and port shapes/lumps/bumps were arrived at.

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Re: The 650 Norton thread

Postby frankdamp » Sun Dec 11, 2016 3:02 pm

I thought I'd posted this story about my works 650SS before, but I can't find it.

I was provided the bike for my ride-to-work, about 45 miles. Public transport for the trip would involve two buses, then a train, then another bus and would take about 2 1/2 hours each way. The Odometer showed 132,000 miles when to took it over, but I have no idea if it was true. I had no problem in the first couple of weeks, then it blew a head gasket on the way to work. I fixed it during the morning and it ran very well.

About 6 months in, Plumstead requisitioned it back to do some single carb tests. Sidecar people were highly ticked that the Commando couldn't run a sidecar. They reassembled it and shipped it back after the tests were done, and I was very happy to give up the 50cc 2-stroke Motom and the Villiers-India scooter I'd been riding and get back on the 650. I set off home the first evening after it came back and was threading my way through downtown Wolverhampton. I typical Brit fashion, I was weaving through the slow, rush hour traffic. I whipped out to pass a slow car, then had to pull in again behind a double-decker bus. Whe I rolled off the throttle, the engine stayed at a high power setting. I was saved by the fact that it was magneto ignition and had a kill button.

I limped home about 8 miles using the kill button to control speed. I got the shop to send the team van out the next morning to take me and the bike in. Stripping down the carbs showed one slide almost full open. Apparently, whoever re-assembled the bike at Plumstead didn't realise the slides were lapped to fit the carb bodies ahd they'd been crossed over. Plumstead hadn't run the bike after putting the dual set-up back on. Once fixed, I rode that bike for the rest of my time at N-V. On my final run before I left, the oil-tank drain plug fell out when I was cruising the M-6 freeway at 85 and the engine seized. In the run-down of N-V in 1968/69, I don't think it was ever fixed.

Someplace, I have a photo of my two daughters sitting on the bike at home. They were 4 and 2 at the time, now 51 and 49. I'll try and find it and post here.
Frank Damp
ex-Norton Villiers - Marston Road
Develpment & Competition Department
1967-68

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Re: The 650 Norton thread

Postby annajeannette » Thu Dec 15, 2016 7:45 pm

NORTON FACTORY RECORD FACTS the First six Unified 650 twins are built in 1959 3 went to Plumstead and 3 stayed in the experiment department one was tested at MIRA and found to over heat not much development work was done on these engines, but from what is known they were all short stroke engines and used a 1.75 crank journals now two have been rebuilt and fitted to respective Norton frames and running gear by a club member the First Production 650 was the named by Joe Berliner and styled by Jay-be -Sach a Ducati stylist the first machine were built on the 7th of November 1960 the first batch was sent by January 13th 1961 330 machines in all , the next batch was in march of 1961, the third batch in early august 1961 and the last of the Manxman model and the start of the 650ss which was a economy model of the Manxman in black and silver

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Re: The 650 Norton thread

Postby Rohan » Thu Dec 15, 2016 9:55 pm

Are we just randomly posting and reposting random facts here, some with no punctuation
all jumbled up and intermixed with other posters posts, some rather ancient. ?!
Will take some rather skilled detective work to sort sense from that lot....

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Re: The 650 Norton thread

Postby L.A.B. » Fri Dec 16, 2016 5:31 am

Rohan wrote:Are we just randomly posting and reposting random facts here, some with no punctuation
all jumbled up and intermixed with other posters posts, some rather ancient. ?!
Will take some rather skilled detective work to sort sense from that lot....


As those posts by annajeannette were such a lengthy jumble of reply and quoted text I've deleted them.
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Re: The 650 Norton thread

Postby annajeannette » Sat Dec 17, 2016 11:25 am

worn torn wrote:Anna, can you tell us how many of the 650ss bikes were built over the years?


Glen


yes not many has the Commando or the Manx come to that there is more Manx machines than you may think

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Re: The 650 Norton thread

Postby annajeannette » Sat Dec 17, 2016 11:30 am

HELLO All If you own a 650 of any model then you are one lucky owner has there is not many left out there And I think it was one of Norton's Best of the Bunch So hang on to it and look after it to treat it with some respect

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Re: The 650 Norton thread

Postby wakeup » Sun Dec 18, 2016 5:04 pm

In my time I've owned about 35 motorcycles, not many by some standards but all of mine have been ridden a fair bit. Of them all, the 650SS was my favourite. Not necessarily the best but my favourite. It had a wonderful blend of performance, (relative!) smoothness, handling and steering, and reliability and soul. Some aspects were better than others.
Even today my perfect everyday motorcycle to ride off into the sunset, would be a more or less standard 650SS, with a decent disc brake on the front.
cheers
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Re: The 650 Norton thread

Postby norton_rider » Sat Feb 18, 2017 3:58 pm

anyone got any tips for cable routing :) trying to figure out the correct route on the throttle an air cable for my 67' 650ss :) 930 amals

an anyone got any tips for setting a 2ls up all the adjusters have been nocked oooops so its not working right guessing you have to set it with the hub of the bike?


Thanks in advance,
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Re: The 650 Norton thread

Postby norton_rider » Sat Feb 25, 2017 6:51 pm

Hi everyone, gonna do the first start up on the new carbs with the 650ss at weekend

quick question regarding setting the throttle stop screws for idle,

do you go in with them till you just see the slide move ever so slightly



or best going in all the way then back out a turn got about 1.5 turns of effect on the slide with them

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Re: The 650 Norton thread

Postby Rohan » Sat Feb 25, 2017 7:36 pm

You need to experiment with them, with the engine running, to eventually get the best height settings,
along with the mixture screws, to give a good smooth consistent idle.

This also involves setting the throttle cables so it neatly lifts both slides at the same time.
Synchronising the throttles, very important for good running.

While you can take a stab at the settings before starting the engine - and hope that it starts ! -
it all really needs to be done with the engine running.
Don't forget too that the engine needs to be warmed up for the best settings.

It is all a bit of a juggling act.
Don't gas yourself in the basement doing this either...
If it is legal to go for a spin around the block trying out various settings, this gives a good measure of how things are going - not stalling when you pull in the clutch to stop, etc.
hth

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Re: The 650 Norton thread

Postby annajeannette » Tue Mar 28, 2017 2:36 pm

acotrel wrote:Are you telling me that the Mercury was an advance over the Manxman ?


The Mercury was made from parts for the atlas and 650ss. and was built to use up old stock parts laying around, where has the Manxman had parts made for it, that was not in any of the other Norton twins parts manual has the Norton Manxman had its own parts manual

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Re: The 650 Norton thread

Postby Rohan » Tue Mar 28, 2017 3:09 pm

annajeannette wrote: and was built to use up old stock parts laying around,


Didn't someone say that about the hybrids ?
And given that more than 8000 were made, thats quite some stack/mountain/warehouses of stray hybrid parts. !!

Mercuries might be in the same category ?
They made several thousand, was it ? Or 1500 anyway.
So would have had to order quite a LOT of parts to build all those bikes...

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Re: The 650 Norton thread

Postby wakeup » Tue Mar 28, 2017 10:26 pm

I think that the Mercury was intended as a cheaper, more practical everyday bike,than the 650SS. Cheaper because of the lack of chrome, (primary drive cover and chainguard) and single carb. More practical by the use of a single carb, way back then lots of people were put off by twin 'tooters.
They may have used up their paint pots full of daggy blue paint as well, but that's possibly a bit subjective!
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Re: The 650 Norton thread

Postby Rohan » Wed Mar 29, 2017 1:09 am

wakeup wrote:I think that the Mercury was intended as a cheaper, more practical everyday bike,than the 650SS.


It had to be less expensive in the showroom than the Commando, which was being made at the same time.

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