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T160 electrics , indicators

T160 electrics , indicators

Postby auldblue » Thu Mar 23, 2017 4:33 pm

Hi, getting the T160 ready for MOT but the left side indicators are not flashing but the box is clicking and the left side is flashing but quite slow. It's. Has been like this for a while had a mechanic test the electrics and he said he thought it had to be the switch. I bought a new sparx switch but would prefer to have the Lucas switch even if I replace its guts.
Any tests I can do mean time as this is the only thing no working and if the box is clicking the switch must be giving it power , I have not rechecked the bulbs or holders.


Cheers. Jg
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But it's roads belong to commando 750's
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Re: T160 electrics , indicators

Postby L.A.B. » Fri Mar 24, 2017 2:26 am

Firstly, you need to check the LH bulbs are the correct type (12V 21W). Check the 'AMP' mini-plug handlebar wire connectors as they are barely adequate electrical conductors when in perfect condition (replace with bullet connectors).

Then, I suggest you check the earths/returns of both LH indicators as the Lucas indicators rely on the metallic coating of the plastic bulb housings for their 'earth' between the bulb holder and stem.
Also, the stems may have poor earth connections, the front indicators rely on the red wire connection inside the shell for their return (the headlamp shell connection is not a headlamp bulb earth/ground as often thought).

The rear indicators rely on continuity through the T160 grab rail and bolted connection to the frame for their earth/return, unlike most other electrical components which have a return wire.

As a check, remove the indicator lenses and run jumper wires from the bulb holders to a known good 'earth' (red wire or battery positive terminal, etc.) and see if that improves/cures the problem? If it does, an 'earth' wire can be added to each indicator by feeding it through the stem and connecting between the bulb holder and a good earth point. As it's an earth, a single strand of bare (copper) wire will do (photo);

Image


If that doesn't do the trick or it does not completely cure the problem then the indicator part of the handlebar switch cluster can be dismantled and cleaned easily enough just make sure the brass contact and spring in the nylon slider don't make a bid for freedom!
(Actual switch cluster shown below is from a T140, your T160's cluster will probably have an additional blue/white wire going to the 'horn' button switch for headlamp flash)
Image

Image
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Re: T160 electrics , indicators

Postby auldblue » Fri Mar 24, 2017 6:42 pm

Hi,

Cheers les, no joy. Tested bulbs both ok.

Cleaned and tested switch , power leaving green red wire.

Checked earths front and back seems good, ran earth wire to rear , no difference.

Took green red wire out of connector and fitted bullets(h/l shell)

Ran G/R switch wire direct to front indicator.

Image

Ran test light from live battery to G/R bullet at rear of bike and got a flashing light on the tester but no light at bulb.

Image

The G/R wire on the main loom taking the power to the indicators will not take a feed when I connect the switch wire . Any other tests I can do to narrow this down or is there something obvious that I am missing or no doing,? Thanks Les.

Jg
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But it's roads belong to commando 750's
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Re: T160 electrics , indicators

Postby L.A.B. » Sat Mar 25, 2017 2:48 am

If you run power to only one bulb at a time it will light but it may need both front and rear connected in order for them to flash (depending on the type of flasher relay).

auldblue wrote:Ran test light from live battery to G/R bullet at rear of bike and got a flashing light on the tester but no light at bulb.


Something wrong there by the sound of it.


auldblue wrote: The G/R wire on the main loom taking the power to the indicators will not take a feed when I connect the switch wire.


A partially fractured G/R wire then, possibly? Check the rear indicator G/R wire for damage where it runs through/under the rear mudguard (assuming it does but from your photo it may not?).


auldblue wrote: Any other tests I can do to narrow this down or is there something obvious that I am missing or no doing,?




You could try swapping the G/R and G/W outputs from the handlebar switch (so switch 'left' flashes the right) and see if the fault remains the same?
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Re: T160 electrics , indicators

Postby auldblue » Sat Mar 25, 2017 4:04 am

Hi Les,

I'm sure your right about thr G/R wire fractured and shorting out.

Image

Image

I ran a wire from the switch feed to front and rear indicators and everything is working as it should, that would get it through the MOT but I want to find out where the problem lies ,but I'm pretty useless with a multimeter . Do you know of any obvious places to look, the wires in the harness seems black don't know if that's with heat or just discoloured with the tape. Cheers Les.
Jg
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Re: T160 electrics , indicators

Postby L.A.B. » Sat Mar 25, 2017 5:52 am

auldblue wrote:I'm sure your right about thr G/R wire fractured and shorting out.


Not necessarily a short, but the copper wire may have fractured inside the insulation resulting in a high resistance.

auldblue wrote: I ran a wire from the switch feed to front and rear indicators and everything is working as it should, that would get it through the MOT but I want to find out where the problem lies ,but I'm pretty useless with a multimeter . Do you know of any obvious places to look, the wires in the harness seems black don't know if that's with heat or just discoloured with the tape.


Difficult to say about the blackened wires. If the wire has fractured then the most likely place would be in the area around the steering head where the harness flexes.
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Re: T160 electrics , indicators

Postby doug » Sat Mar 25, 2017 6:45 am

I had similar problems with my T140 indicators flashing slowly/not at all depending on revs/phase of the moon.I eventually gave up and fitted LED indicators.

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Re: T160 electrics , indicators

Postby Fast Eddie » Sat Mar 25, 2017 7:30 am

I can honestly say that I have never had a single problem with indicators fitted to a British bike of mine.

Ditto electric starters.
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Re: T160 electrics , indicators

Postby auldblue » Sat Mar 25, 2017 8:20 am

Fast Eddie wrote:I can honestly say that I have never had a single problem with indicators fitted to a British bike of mine.

Ditto electric starters.


Good one Nigel , we all know why ............that may all change in the next few months !!!!

Cheers for the "positive" outlook Doug ,LED 's are great. I've got an LED headlight on the T160 couldn't do without it now .

But not working as they should , I can't get the flasher warning light to work and without striping the consul I am not sure which wire goes to the orange bulb there are two short G/R and one long ,I have tried all three with no success . Don't really fancy getting down and dirty with it at the moment I feel if it is ok I will leave it till after the summer just in case I make things worse, as often happens in theses situations.
The front brake and brake switch are now also working fine let's hope they hold out for the MOT. thanks again Les.

Jg
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Re: T160 electrics , indicators

Postby L.A.B. » Sat Mar 25, 2017 12:38 pm

auldblue wrote: But not working as they should , I can't get the flasher warning light to work and without striping the consul I am not sure which wire goes to the orange bulb there are two short G/R and one long ,I have tried all three with no success.


Edit: All three G/R wires (one being the feed from the handlebar switch) should connect to a (common) 4-way double bullet connector, also a fourth, the (green?) LH front indicator wire.

The amber warning light for the standard 'two-pin' flasher relay has a connection to each indicator circuit (GW & GR, see diagram, below) it does not have an 'earth' wire as such, because the warning light's earth is whichever side isn't flashing, the resistance of the low wattage bulb being sufficient to prevent the bulbs on the non-flashing side from also working so the warning light should have one bulb connection going to G/R and the other to G/W.

Image

If the standard warning bulb is replaced with an LED then it may only work for one set of indicators.
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Re: T160 electrics , indicators

Postby auldblue » Sun Mar 26, 2017 1:40 am

What I can't get my head round is the light won't flash, I don't know exactly which wire it is but I am presuming it is the longer G/R of the three ,I can't be sure thought without further investigation. I am giving it another go this morning.

Image

I think the light wire is the G/R going into the connector pointing to the back? Cheers , jg
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Re: T160 electrics , indicators

Postby L.A.B. » Sun Mar 26, 2017 2:14 am

auldblue wrote:What I can't get my head round is the light won't flash, I don't know exactly which wire it is but I am presuming it is the longer G/R of the three ,I can't be sure thought without further investigation.

I think the light wire is the G/R going into the connector pointing to the back?


Won't flash, or doesn't light up (bulb blown)?

It should be one of the 'short' G/Rs into the harness.
The other short G/R goes to the LH rear indicator.
The long G/R is probably from the handlebar switch.
The LH front (green) is missing from the connector (as I presume you know?).
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Re: T160 electrics , indicators

Postby auldblue » Sun Mar 26, 2017 5:46 am

Took the ign/warning light binnacle off and checked continuity it was one of the short G/R wires it was attached to the normal earth side of the buib holder. Must have been a loose connection of something? It just started to work as is ,with no additional wires. It only has a new feed wire running from the switch feed to the rear indicator and all indicators are working fine.

So basically as long as there are no further mishaps putting the headlight back in and fitting the OPG light wires and brackets I think that could be job done, and I can get the yellow roadster tank and panels on. Bob's your uncle as they says.

Thanks again Les, it definatly gives you confidence to tackle jobs your unsure of when you have help from somebody who knows what their doing.

Jg
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Re: T160 electrics , indicators

Postby auldblue » Thu May 25, 2017 12:14 pm

The big day arrived , twenty mile or so drive for the MOT and while stopping for a drink blew the fuse , then promptly blew the new fuse . So it was a two fifty yard push to the bike shop took the fight bar switch of fuse in and ok . Stuck it back on everything working ok. Passed the MOT rode home no further issues, bit weird but that's it for another twelve months . Three bikes all with some form of electrical issues , I'm beginning to think the ghost of old Joe Lucas is haunting me!! But all three are on historic tax so good to go, happy days.

Jg
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Re: T160 electrics , indicators

Postby Fast Eddie » Fri May 26, 2017 12:09 am

auldblue wrote:The big day arrived , twenty mile or so drive for the MOT and while stopping for a drink blew the fuse , then promptly blew the new fuse . So it was a two fifty yard push to the bike shop took the fight bar switch of fuse in and ok . Stuck it back on everything working ok. Passed the MOT rode home no further issues, bit weird but that's it for another twelve months . Three bikes all with some form of electrical issues , I'm beginning to think the ghost of old Joe Lucas is haunting me!! But all three are on historic tax so good to go, happy days.

Jg


We've discussed this already Jimmy...

What's not there can't fail...!
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