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SPROCKET TALK

Modern 961 Norton Commando Motorcycles

SPROCKET TALK

Postby richard-7 » Tue May 17, 2016 5:52 am

Started a thread for Sprockets as suggested.

BACK NOTES:
John Snead reverse engineered a 2013 Front Sprocket and has found that it was approx. .010" smaller over the splines than a 2015 sprocket. So we are trying to figure out when it changed. John will be making a tooth up and a tooth down front sprockets for our 961's but some research is needed before he can release them as we have bumped into a potential problem of not knowing if there are different size shafts through out the years.

If any one has replaced a front sprocket, was there any notice of a LOOSE fit? Did the sprocket slide on with ease? What year is your bike and when did you replace the sprocket.
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Re: SPROCKET TALK

Postby Raphi » Fri May 20, 2016 10:51 am

Hello John
The sprockets have arrived today. Thanks a lot!
By all appearances the stock sprocket of my CR 2012 is similar in the spline than the new ones (see following pics). I will let you know as soon I had the time to mount and test them.
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Re: SPROCKET TALK

Postby richard-7 » Fri May 20, 2016 4:22 pm

Exciting. I'm pretty sure I would have had them this weekend too but the fedex guy left a note saying sorry we missed you. Back on Tuesday. Looking forward to your review Raphi
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Re: SPROCKET TALK

Postby TonyA » Fri May 20, 2016 4:50 pm

Hello Raphi , With one tooth less you will be running into the rev limiter very quickly . Have fun !
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Re: SPROCKET TALK

Postby G81 Can Cycle » Sat May 21, 2016 8:09 am

Hi Raphi

There is only a minor difference in inspection criterion between the ones you received, and the ones that seem to fit the 2014 and later. As I understand it from Dave Coote (Richard's father) Norton is selling the newer sprocket to fit on the older bikes. This will make the fit a little "loose", but this should not be a problem

We use the same spline on some of the industrial tools we make. With same spine (tooth thickness) and about 2/3 less teeth, this spline accepts 3200 ft/lbs (4338 Newton meters) So this spline should never fail even when it is a loose fit to the countershaft

Hopefully they will fit your 2012 bike.

We are recutting the rest of the units for fit to the newer bikes. I will send a set to Richard to see how the fit is on his 2013

We will branding these sprockets with the One O7 name and selling them through CNW.

More stuff to come, but it is still a secret.

John
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Re: SPROCKET TALK

Postby G81 Can Cycle » Tue May 24, 2016 4:33 am

Received the sprockets back from heat treat with the new spline numbers we cut

They fit great on the 2015 SF race bike.

I will be running the 1 tooth down sprocket at a track in Wisconsin next week. So, this should give some testing under strenuous use.

Raphi and Richard have test samples of the units cut for the 2013 and earlier units. I hope to get some feedback from them soon

All sprockets in the future will have internal spline features that fit the 2014, and newer, units. This spline will also fit the 2013 and older units.

We will be pricing these units and delivering to CNW for sale after testing.

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Re: SPROCKET TALK

Postby TonyA » Tue May 24, 2016 5:03 am

I will be running the 1 tooth down sprocket at a track in Wisconsin next week. (At Road America I assume ?)

Hello John , Is this the AHRMA Rocker Box Motofest June 10th weekend ? If so , I will be there and will come over to see you guys !
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Re: SPROCKET TALK

Postby G81 Can Cycle » Tue May 24, 2016 8:31 am

TonyA wrote:I will be running the 1 tooth down sprocket at a track in Wisconsin next week. (At Road America I assume ?)

Hello John , Is this the AHRMA Rocker Box Motofest June 10th weekend ? If so , I will be there and will come over to see you guys !


Tony

My mistake Next week is Gingerman in Michigan. It is a technical track and I will run the 1 tooth down sprocket

You are correct on the date for Road America. I will be there and we may run the 1 tooth up at Road America. There are 2 very long straight aways at RA. Not sure if it will work, but will find out during practice

Hope to see you there

John
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Re: SPROCKET TALK

Postby richard-7 » Tue May 24, 2016 4:33 pm

My dad purchased a brand new sprocket from Norton when he was there. It is loose on his 2013 SE. We just received John's test Sprockets this afternoon. We will be testing them soon. More to come. :mrgreen:
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Re: SPROCKET TALK

Postby Raphi » Tue May 24, 2016 11:12 pm

Hi Richard, that is great. I am looking forward to a new manual...
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Re: SPROCKET TALK

Postby richard-7 » Sat Jun 04, 2016 9:49 am

Today we are hooking up a digital info reader on my dads red sf. After its calibrated, we can then test sprokets. One thing we noticed is that the new norton sprockets (oem 2016) are definitely larger than the old as John Pointed out. Probaly not a huge deal for most unless you are racing then the on the gas off the gas hard could pre wear the spline.




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Re: SPROCKET TALK

Postby batrider » Sun Jun 05, 2016 4:22 am

This is all pretty vague talk. How loose is too loose? Aren't there any mechanical engineering standards that specify the tolerances? Is it in or out of spec?
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Re: SPROCKET TALK

Postby richard-7 » Sun Jun 05, 2016 8:29 am

.010" larger is a pretty big difference. And -- even if you get a new transmission, the output shaft is not changed. Thankfully, John will have a limited supply of 2013 and earlier sprockets. No telling how long they will last as I don't believe he will make any more of them as it was by accident he made the batch he did based on the 2013 sprocket we sent him to reverse engineer. So when they are released, get 'em while they're hot!!

PS John makes his living on selling gears so he does know a thing or two.. :mrgreen:
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Re: SPROCKET TALK

Postby richard-7 » Mon Jun 20, 2016 3:40 pm

update:
Testing done and manual made.

WOW!!!!

I cannot believe I didn't get a ticket yet... or fall off from a wheelie gone wrong. :lol:
The 17 tooth sprocket is a lot of fun. You pretty much live in the 4,000 rpm + range which makes cornering (even at lower speeds) way more controllable and precise. It makes slower speeds a joy. Parking lots and driveways and slow take off are now effortless. It's the perfect sprocket for normal riding that is mostly under 65mph. But don't worry, you can go well above that. I hit 100mph for a blip on a back road just to try it -- and I got there really quickly. But if you find you're doing a lot of cruising with your Harley buds, then you will not want to pass on the 19tooth sprocket. It basically turns your 961 into a cruiser. Lower RPM's, longer times between gear switching and better on fuel. The 961 has an incredible torque curve so the 19tooth is still great a low speeds. John did an incredible job. I'll let him speak to the specifics if he chooses but the materials and precision are top notch. So great we proudly put the ONE07 name on it.

After you change the sprocket once, you will be a pro and change them in under 20 minutes.

CNW will have them soon enough but they are small batched so if you really want one, get an order in to CNW and get your name on the list. Expect about 2 weeks before you see them pop up on the CNW website.
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Re: SPROCKET TALK

Postby Raphi » Fri Sep 09, 2016 2:36 pm

Hi folks
I am pleased to announce that I finally had the time to bring my bike for testing the fitting of the front sprockets of John Snead. :roll:
Both the 17 tooth and the 19 tooth fit very well to my (early) CR May 2012. I didn't try riding with the 19 tooth yet, but the 17 tooth is really fun. As Richard-7 says, the engine is running much smoother at low speeds with the one tooth down sprocket compared to the stock one. And the additional torque to the rear wheel is remarquable!
Richard writes in his manual that speedometer reads approx. 10mph faster with the one tooth down sprocket. I will check this within the next days with my GPS and report...
I guess that the rev counter will still read correctly with a different sprocket, or am I wrong?
Question to Richard-7: Did you switch back to the stock sprocket or did you leave the 17 or 19 tooth on your bike?

Many thanks to John Snead once again!
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