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Sparx electronic ignition and rotor/stator

Classic Norton Commando Motorcycles.

Sparx electronic ignition and rotor/stator

Postby pierodn » Tue Sep 12, 2017 12:27 am

Hi.
Someone have used the Sparx electronic ignition and rotor/stator?
Are they good?
Thank you.
Piero

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Re: Sparx electronic ignition and rotor/stator

Postby gtiller » Tue Sep 12, 2017 6:16 am

My personal view is that I do not like them.

- I find the tolerance between rotor and stator is tighter than Lucas, not always a good thing on an older bike
- I had to broach the rotor on to the crankshaft - which I didn't like so I ended up reaming it to fit
- I didn't like the junction between the potting compound and the exiting stator cables

But I'm sure many will come back and tell you how wonderful they are.

Personally, I think that the new Lucas ones (made by Wassell) are really good these days.
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Re: Sparx electronic ignition and rotor/stator

Postby Nater_Potater » Tue Sep 12, 2017 11:53 am

Ran less than a year. In its defense, it was still working, but I didn't trust it.
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Re: Sparx electronic ignition and rotor/stator

Postby pierodn » Tue Sep 12, 2017 1:11 pm

Hi.
And what do you think about Electronic Iniection?

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Re: Sparx electronic ignition and rotor/stator

Postby blaisestation » Tue Sep 12, 2017 1:47 pm

ciao Piero,
i have had two people bring sparx ignitions to me to install (against my advice ) in their bikes (1 triumph 1 norton).


They were both back (1 in a month and one 3 months later).

And now they are both happily riding around with pazons (at least 4 years later).
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Re: Sparx electronic ignition and rotor/stator

Postby pierodn » Wed Sep 13, 2017 1:21 pm

blaisestation wrote:ciao Piero,
i have had two people bring sparx ignitions to me to install (against my advice ) in their bikes (1 triumph 1 norton).


They were both back (1 in a month and one 3 months later).

And now they are both happily riding around with pazons (at least 4 years later).


Hi.
What do you think happened?.
Me too use only Pazon, that works great, but i have a new Sparx and i would like use it.
Thanks.
Piero

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Re: Sparx electronic ignition and rotor/stator

Postby blaisestation » Wed Sep 13, 2017 5:03 pm

Hi Piero,
Both had "black box" malfunctions .
erratic running,misfires etc.,
Never bothered to delve any deeper .
I don´t trust them.
You may have luck ,but i wouldn´t personally go near one !
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Re: Sparx electronic ignition and rotor/stator

Postby grandpaul » Thu Sep 14, 2017 1:40 pm

For over 10 years I used Sparx exclusively. Sold and installed nearly 40 units.

In all that time, one client had (2) rotor/stator failures, and I believe his black box failed. Another client send me back his black box non-working, it was replaced in warranty. I had one that seemed dodgy and got a free replacement.

So, total of 3 out of 40 Sparx units failed, with one unit having 3 failures on same bike. In retrospect, that's on the high side.

In the last few years, I have installed one used Tri-Spark, and sold 3 Pazon units. zero reported failures so far.

In nearly 30 years of working on classic Britbikes, I have removed more than 20 failed Boyer units. About 15 black box failures, the other 5 were stator failures. I have only dealt with 3 bikes that had Boyer units that DIDN'T fail, and I still have 1 of them.
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Re: Sparx electronic ignition and rotor/stator

Postby Mr. Rick » Fri Sep 15, 2017 12:00 am

For over 10 years I used Sparx exclusively. Sold and installed nearly 40 units.

In all that time, one client had (2) rotor/stator failures, and I believe his black box failed. Another client send me back his black box non-working, it was replaced in warranty. I had one that seemed dodgy and got a free replacement.

So, total of 3 out of 40 Sparx units failed, with one unit having 3 failures on same bike. In retrospect, that's on the high side.

That's some good data: 10yrs, 40 units (brand new), 3 fails. Four installs per year, 7.5% failure rate, decent sample size.

In the last few years, I have installed one used Tri-Spark, and sold 3 Pazon units. zero reported failures so far./color]
Not quite as good, maybe. "Few" years. 4 units (brand new) no fails. But a very small sample size.

[color=#FFFF80]In nearly 30 years of working on classic Britbikes, I have removed more than 20 failed Boyer units. About 15 black box failures, the other 5 were stator failures. I have only dealt with 3 bikes that had Boyer units that DIDN'T fail, and I still have 1 of them.

This does not seem meaningful to me unless you know the total number of bikes that had Boyer and came in for other reasons. Or unless you're saying these 20 were also brand new and failed?
Either way, we can't determine the failure rate without the total, right? Are you saying that in 30 years, you only saw 23 bikes total with Boyers and that 20 of those failed, giving a failure rate of 87% ? Surely not.
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Re: Sparx electronic ignition and rotor/stator

Postby grandpaul » Fri Sep 15, 2017 7:56 am

Mr. Rick wrote:Are you saying that in 30 years, you only saw 23 bikes total with Boyers and that 20 of those failed, giving a failure rate of 87% ? Surely not.

That is what I'm saying, give or take 1 or 2. I lost count. I should have saved them in a bin, but they were out of warranty.

I've said it before, but it bears repeating:

For MANY years, Boyer ignitions were the only readily available aftermarket electronic ignitions for classic British bikes. So, it follows that there would be far more Boyers installed than all other brands put together, up to a certain point. Extrapolating from that basis, there would also be far more Boyer unit failures than all other brands put together, up to a certain point.

I don't have any more statistical data to back up any of this, apart from my actual first-hand experience replacing the units that I replaced. Dead = dead = NO SPARK under any circumstances.

I suppose I should add that I purchased at least a half-dozen lots of 3 or more rolling projects and/or basket cases, so perhaps that provides an even better prospective.

I'd like to know the total number of units Boyer has produced over the years, as well as all the other brands. That would lend SIGNIFICANT perspective to this discussion...
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Re: Sparx electronic ignition and rotor/stator

Postby NortonMKIIA850 » Fri Sep 15, 2017 8:14 am

That's interesting – I've had the same Boyer fitted since the late '90s, and the only problem I've encountered is the old wire-fatigue chestnut. I got around that by mounting studs on the stator and attaching a home-brew cable made of braided wire that I scavenged from a length of co-axial tv aerial cable. I firmed that up with plenty of heat-shrink. The ring of heat-shrink on one wire is so I know which is which. (I'm sure someone said recently that they couldn't imagine a use for heat-shrink...) I took the photo in 2002. The length of white plastic you can see there, inside the points housing, is a length of the plastic core from the aerial cable that I added for yet more support – it extends two or three inches out into the open air, with my home-brew Boyer cable attached. I long since decided it was overkill, but never got around to removing it. In the early '80s I found Boyer's customer support was great – for some reason I couldn't get their kit to work right on my Z650, so they invited me over and set it up right for me, I seem to recall that somehow I was timing it wrong ... Well, I was young then – but I've never had to call on them since, so ...
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Re: Sparx electronic ignition and rotor/stator

Postby grandpaul » Fri Sep 15, 2017 8:46 am

I must admit, the Boyer unit that came with my MkIII is still working.
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Re: Sparx electronic ignition and rotor/stator

Postby daveparry » Sun Sep 17, 2017 9:36 am

When I bought my '73 850 in around 1975 it already had a Boyer unit fitted which had the whole lot contained in the unit in the timing cover. After a few months the engine started cutting out when hot, (was also a bugger to start) being an electronics engineer I soon realised that the unit was breaking down due to heat. I replaced it with a new Boyer unit which had the electronics in a separate unit which fitted up under the tank, just having the trigger unit in the timing cover, from memory I think this is known as the mk2 version and this is the only type i've ever seen mentioned here. It is still working fine to this day!
I've never seen any mention of the earlier one but transistors etc. were very susceptible to heat in those days so I think that system was doomed to failure from the start.
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Re: Sparx electronic ignition and rotor/stator

Postby rvich » Sun Sep 17, 2017 1:12 pm

Nater_Potater wrote:Ran less than a year. In its defense, it was still working, but I didn't trust it.
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If it still works why did you stop trusting it?
"Just one sheep..."
Follow advice from this poster at your own risk!
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Re: Sparx electronic ignition and rotor/stator

Postby speedrattle » Sun Sep 17, 2017 1:36 pm

i put a boyer on my T120 around 1986, and the stator failed after a few months- the epoxy melted and things came loose. the warranty replacement has been trouble-free now for over thirty years.
my name is kevin. this speedrattle stuff is because there is already a kevin around here somewhere
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