daveh wrote:...Yes, my Dad had bikes as his primary transport...
...There were no Norton dealers in Ireland at that time...almost everyone rode Japanese...
...Just look at the posts on this forum...

Here in Canada few people have a motorcycle as their main vehicle because two-wheeled vehicles are not good in winter.

For any vehicle having local parts and service is very important so your father’s advice sounds very sensible.

In western Canada we had large NVT dealers. The place where I bought mine was huge and sold NVT products as well as one of the Japanese brands. When I bought my bike the prices I remember are; $2795 for a CB-750 or Commando, about $3500 for a Sportster or Z1, and about $4500 for an Electra Glide. Big European bikes were also expensive. Even though the purchase price of the CB-750 and Commando were about the same the Honda parts were twice as expensive but didn’t last any longer. My cousin drove a CB-750 for years and we saw each other often and compared notes.

As a happy Commando owner of 36 years I can tell you there is a lot of good stuff posted on this site and a couple of fellows post things that cannot be found anywhere else.

Even though there have always been good local repair places for British bikes I have always done most of my own work because I am allergic to paying workshop rates. Anything over $20 per hour makes me nauseous. With the old bikes the owner always had the option to do most work at home. That is just not possible with many, if not most, newer vehicles. My poor nephew has a very modern and sophisticated HoYaSuKa 600 cc with 130 h.p. and it developed a slight tick. The dealer did not even have to crack the case to quote a $2000+ repair bill. My nephew had no choice but to pay that amount because every dealer quoted about the same price and it is not really possible to repair the machine at home. The corporation that made the bike has a noose securely attached around his testicles and he must pay their price or park the machine. He can choose to switch to a different brand but that would just replace the current noose with one of a different colour. My young nephew may never be free of the noose, poor fellow, because that wouldn’t be modern.

Murray B wrote:...
Even though there have always been good local repair places for British bikes I have always done most of my own work because I am allergic to paying workshop rates. Anything over $20 per hour makes me nauseous. With the old bikes the owner always had the option to do most work at home. That is just not possible with many, if not most, newer vehicles. My poor nephew has a very modern and sophisticated HoYaSuKa 600 cc with 130 h.p. and it developed a slight tick. The dealer did not even have to crack the case to quote a $2000+ repair bill. My nephew had no choice but to pay that amount because every dealer quoted about the same price and it is not really possible to repair the machine at home. The corporation that made the bike has a noose securely attached around his testicles and he must pay their price or park the machine. He can choose to switch to a different brand but that would just replace the current noose with one of a different colour. My young nephew may never be free of the noose, poor fellow, because that wouldn’t be modern.

Workshop rates are 50-60$/hr and up these days. Doing your own work on modern machinery isn't that different than doing it on old equipment if you know what your doing. It's all the same parts, just arranged a little differently. Shop manuals and parts PDFs online for those who know how to look. The pain is on fully fared bikes, especially inline fours.

With the proper software and cable , checking/erasing error codes, checking throttle body balance, making fueling/timing changes, redline cutoff, idle, etc can be done with a few clicks of the mouse. Dealer is only needed for parts if you want them locally or you can go to the net for them. Tuning a fuel injected bike on a dyno is a thing of beauty and efficiency compared to swapping jets, playing with needles etc.

There are other modern bikes far better for the street than a four cylinder fully fared bike. My preference is for naked twins

willh wrote:... Doing your own work on modern machinery isn't that different than doing it on old equipment if you know what your doing. It's all the same parts, just arranged a little differently...

My first car was a ’62 Parisienne with a 283 2bbl and a slushbox. It was pretty reliable but I did have to put in an intake manifold gasket and rebuild the carb. Now I have a Grand Am. The intake manifold gasket went and I could not even find the manifold. It must have one but it is not obvious. They also must have been pretty drunk at the factory the day it was built because the engine is put in sideways. Anyway I’m pretty sure the car was built to discourage self-service and it cost me $800 to have someone replace that gasket.

My nephew’s bike produces about 3.5 h.p. per cubic inch and revs to something like 15,000 rpm. The level of knowledge needed to properly repair that engine far exceeds what I know or could readily learn. It is also not the best thing for my young nephew to learn on. Even the best manual is not good enough when you have not worked on anything like it before. His tick had something to do with the main bearings but I still have no idea why it cost so much to repair.

Dealers and their service depts and labour rates existed from the earliest days of motorcycling..

If you look back through old motorcycling magazines, there was similar disquiet and anxiety when motorcycles changed over from belt drive to chain drive, and from sidevalve to overhead valve, and from acetylene lighting to electric lighting, and from no front brake to front brake, and from handchange gearboxes to footchange gearboxes, and from crash boxes to constant mesh boxes, and lever throttle to twistgrip throttle, and from single cylinder to twin cylinder and from girder forks to tubular forks. And from featherbed frames to Commando frames.

Times change, riders adapt, progress progresses.... ?