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Side Stands

Norton P11 discussions only

Side Stands

Postby Hotspurr » Mon Feb 23, 2015 10:28 am

Greetings All,

Like oil tanks, apparently there are several versions of the side stand. From what I gather, the P11 side stand was the same as the Atlas , but with one shorter bolt in the lug to clear the primary. The parts manual lists a different stand leg for the P11A and I have heard that the Ranger 759 might even have a slightly different version.
Could owners of unmodified versions of these three models provide pictures of the side stands on their bikes for the edification of the rest of us?

Thanks, Norm

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Re: Side Stands

Postby BillT » Mon Feb 23, 2015 4:29 pm

My side stand is the last version made by Norton, and available through Norvil as 06-7719A as a complete assembly

The original featherbed side stands had a rather thin outer part of the clamp, and the foot of the prop leg was welded on.

The story I heard was that Norton kept replacing side stands due to owners (read: American owners) starting their bikes on the side stand. Norton re-designed this stand a couple of times, beefing up the leg, pivot, and clamp. With the last version, the foot is a bit smaller and cast with the leg, which is a little stouter than the original leg. The clamp is thicker, with the outer portion having two ribs cast into it. The lower nut is a special shouldered nut, the shoulder is to clear the leg pivot.

This Norvil stand will work fine, but you have to grind the strengthening ribs completely off to clear the back side of the inner primary. If you have a low pipe bike, you may also have to grind some of the foot down to clear the pipe.

It should clamp to the frame just below the primary drain plug. My engine plates had tell-tale marks from the backside of the clamp - it wedges between the frame and the front engine plate, with a flat on the clamp to set the proper angle
'73 Norton 850 Commando - 3030xx
'69 Norton Ranger 750 - P11/1289xx
'67 Matchless G15CS - G15CS/1235xx
'61 Matchless G80CS - 61/G80CS/41xx
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Re: Side Stands

Postby p400 » Thu Feb 26, 2015 10:29 am

Here is a part numbered drawing I completed for myself for reference.
I am pretty sure the differences on P11 and P11A side stands have to do with 16174/033278 fulcrum pin. press fit versus circlipped pin.
prop leg stayed same, hole bore changed.......two castings brazed together....expensive and delicate compared to a single casting Ranger prop.
This is just my best guess. please post pictures of your project or pieces.
P11PropStandParts.jpg
P11PropStandParts.jpg (21.75 KiB) Viewed 448 times
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Re: Side Stands

Postby p400 » Thu Feb 26, 2015 10:38 am

Here is an RGM side stand....I am pretty sure this is a copy of a Ranger prop, the latest/last prop issued by Norton for P11 use.
single casting with circlip fulcrum......looks like spring is unhooked.
anyone purchase this prop?
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Re: Side Stands

Postby elefantrider » Thu Feb 26, 2015 11:04 am

I have held one and it seems like a quality piece, probably made of better material than stock. The foot section is thicker than the stock version though.

Not sure where made, but I doubt in the UK. Probably India.
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Re: Side Stands

Postby BillT » Thu Feb 26, 2015 3:55 pm

The Norvil prop is a little stouter than that, but requires a bit of grinding to fit behind the primary. The RGM looks like it might work without modification.
'73 Norton 850 Commando - 3030xx
'69 Norton Ranger 750 - P11/1289xx
'67 Matchless G15CS - G15CS/1235xx
'61 Matchless G80CS - 61/G80CS/41xx
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Re: Side Stands

Postby Ron L » Fri Feb 27, 2015 2:25 pm

I mentioned this thread to my friend, Bill Giar, who has an impressive collection of P11's and parts, including one he purchased new back in '69. He told me he has never seen a completely cast leg on any P11. We discussed the different P/N for the leg on the '68 Atlas and P11A, but could not explain why. He took a close look at the stand on his Ranger 750 and his '67 P11 and realized that the leg on the Ranger is thicker than the '67. I remembered I had purchased a side stand leg for an early ('68-'70) Commando from Les Emery at Norvil several years ago, and when it arrived it was completely cast as well. When you compare this to the correct early Commando leg, it is quite different in appearance, but will function. When compared to the P11 leg, it is pretty close in dimension as well. The picture in P400's post from RGM is dead on the leg supplied to me as early Commando. The spring tab is even rotated about 45 degrees from the original Atlas/P11 item.

I suspect that Norvil and RGM are supplying a reproduction leg that is cast in one piece and using it as a replacement for Atlas, P11, and early Commando (although the Commando has a totally different lug).

Bill dug out an early and late stand from his stash. I suspect the thin one is P/N 23877 while the thicker leg is P/N 034070. Both have the same casting number on the foot pad.

Image
Image
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Re: Side Stands

Postby p400 » Sat Feb 28, 2015 8:11 am

Ron L wrote:Bill dug out an early and late stand from his stash. I suspect the thin one is P/N 23877 while the thicker leg is P/N 034070. Both have the same casting number on the foot pad.


Thank you for the photos and the new information. I have actually seen/recorded this difference , but not noticed it!
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Re: Side Stands

Postby CanukNortonNut » Sat Feb 28, 2015 10:30 am

Ron L wrote:I mentioned this thread to my friend, Bill Giar, who has an impressive collection of P11's and parts, including one he purchased new back in '69. He told me he has never seen a completely cast leg on any P11. We discussed the different P/N for the leg on the '68 Atlas and P11A, but could not explain why. He took a close look at the stand on his Ranger 750 and his '67 P11 and realized that the leg on the Ranger is thicker than the '67. I remembered I had purchased a side stand leg for an early ('68-'70) Commando from Les Emery at Norvil several years ago, and when it arrived it was completely cast as well. When you compare this to the correct early Commando leg, it is quite different in appearance, but will function. When compared to the P11 leg, it is pretty close in dimension as well. The picture in P400's post from RGM is dead on the leg supplied to me as early Commando. The spring tab is even rotated about 45 degrees from the original Atlas/P11 item.

I suspect that Norvil and RGM are supplying a reproduction leg that is cast in one piece and using it as a replacement for Atlas, P11, and early Commando (although the Commando has a totally different lug).

Bill dug out an early and late stand from his stash. I suspect the thin one is P/N 23877 while the thicker leg is P/N 034070. Both have the same casting number on the foot pad.

Image
Image

Hi RonL
I have what looks like the RH stand from your pictures but my foot has three 1/2 inch holes drilled in between the webbing of the foot pad. 1 hole at the toe and 2 at the back of the heal. I have a # 7 stamped on the underside of the foot pad.
Does anyone else have holes drilled in the foot as I described? Was this factory or a way the PO tried to lighten the bike?
Regards,
Tom
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Re: Side Stands

Postby elefantrider » Wed Jan 25, 2017 2:24 am

What is the difference between the Atlas Stand and the P11 stand?
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Re: Side Stands

Postby pierodn » Wed Jan 25, 2017 1:17 pm

p400 wrote:Here is a part numbered drawing I completed for myself for reference.
I am pretty sure the differences on P11 and P11A side stands have to do with 16174/033278 fulcrum pin. press fit versus circlipped pin.
prop leg stayed same, hole bore changed.......two castings brazed together....expensive and delicate compared to a single casting Ranger prop.
This is just my best guess. please post pictures of your project or pieces.
P11PropStandParts.jpg


Hi.
The parts list says that:
- Fulcrum pin 16174 is the 1967 type.
- Rgm type with fulcrum pin circlip is 1968.
My 1968 had 16174 type.
Piero

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Re: Side Stands

Postby Paul W » Wed Jan 25, 2017 1:20 pm

There were never any holes drilled in the stand pad and it is more likely to be an owner trying to save weight?
I have always been led to believe that the late Atlas stand was the same as P11, and have purchased an Atlas stand with the large foot pad from the US for one of my Rangers.
1969 Commando S
1968 P11 Ranger (x2)
1966 650SS
1957 Model 30 International
1953 ES2
1939 Triumph Tiger 100
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Re: Side Stands

Postby pierodn » Thu Jan 26, 2017 12:47 am


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Re: Side Stands

Postby elefantrider » Thu Jan 26, 2017 2:48 am

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Norton-Atlas-Do ... 1698931446

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Norton-P11-750- ... 2168343278

The 2nd one listed for P11 seems much taller than the Atlas one.
Has anyone has tried their taller stand?
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Re: Side Stands

Postby Paul W » Thu Jan 26, 2017 4:14 am

The second stand is the correct type for P11.
It just maybe slightly longer which isn't a problem as you just shave off some metal on the angle of the half bracket which butts up against the engine plate. This then compensates to give a greater lean on the bike whilst on the stand.
Hope this helps,
ATB, Paul.
1969 Commando S
1968 P11 Ranger (x2)
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