A Short History of the Wankel Motorcycles

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A Short History of the Wankel Motorcycles

Postby swooshdave » Fri Nov 25, 2011 9:02 pm

http://thevintagent.blogspot.com/2011/1 ... ycles.html

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A great overview of the Wankel engine and all the motorcycles that used it. Of course the Norton aspect is the most lengthy and relevant.

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Such disappointments were rectified in 1990, when Norton finally lived up to its heritage and introduced the lovely 'F1' ('P55'), based on their RC588 racers, then in the midst of a terrific run of success on the racetrack; in 1989 they won the British F1 championship. Only one color scheme was offered, in race sponsor 'John Player' livery of black and gold. Power was bumped to 95hp@9500rpm, from the water-cooled engine. The F1 had issues with heat buildup, as the bodywork almost sealed the engine unit within plastic, and lost quite a few hp when ridden hard. Around 145 F1s were built. Built with a Spondon aluminum twin-spar frame, White Power upside-down forks, a Yamaha 5-speed gearbox, and stainless exhaust, the F1 sold for an expensive £12,000.


Just a short quote, for much more follow the link.
You probably want to go into town, and find a up to date Jap Bike store,
With a full spares department, a clean workshop, and kean young mechanics.
And ask them if theres a Grumpy Old Bloke out in the Hills, who knows how to fix Real Motorcycles.

Matt
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Re: A Short History of the Wankel Motorcycles

Postby ZFD » Sat Nov 26, 2011 1:45 am

Dare I say it you will find far more- and from the horse's mouth- on our Norton Motors Ltd webpage: www.nortonmotors.co.uk. This includes prototype pictures I bought off David Garside many years ago and the input of Richard Negus, Norton Motors "Chief of Motorcycles" in the rotary production era.
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Re: A Short History of the Wankel Motorcycles

Postby beng » Sat Nov 26, 2011 10:01 am

Somebody that has a Norton Rotary or is a fan of them should get this literature from me before it gets any more dog-eared. If anyone is interested PM me.

It is a collection of Norton Rotary papers in a folder meant to sell stock in the company. It consists of a 50+ page book with photos and text detailing the entire company, four copies of a Norton Rotary newsletter with two extra doubles, six pages of specs and info on the racing effort printed on JPS letterhead, what appears to be a regular brochure for Rotary Nortons, and a few other booklets and letters:

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Last edited by beng on Sat Nov 26, 2011 10:15 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: A Short History of the Wankel Motorcycles

Postby swooshdave » Sat Nov 26, 2011 10:03 am

beng wrote:Somebody that has a Norton Rotary or is a fan of them should get this literature from me before it gets any more dog-eared.

It is a collection of Norton Rotary papers in a folder meant to sell stock in the company. It consists of a 50+ page book with photos and text detailing the entire company, four copies of a Norton Rotary newsletter with two extra doubles, six pages of specs and info on the racing effort printed on JPS letterhead, what appears to be a regular brochure for Rotary Nortons, and a few other booklets and letters:



I suggest you send it to Joe, if he doesn't have a copy already.
You probably want to go into town, and find a up to date Jap Bike store,
With a full spares department, a clean workshop, and kean young mechanics.
And ask them if theres a Grumpy Old Bloke out in the Hills, who knows how to fix Real Motorcycles.

Matt
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Re: A Short History of the Wankel Motorcycles

Postby Matt Spencer » Sun Nov 27, 2011 1:32 am

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Mutter Fume . 132 mph lap at M.I.R.A. , 1975 .
With the new fangled 1985 Exaust its less feeble .

and one or two people think its UGLY . Gee . . . .

Maybe theyd still be in the upright , if they'd gone for this & volume in 85 rather than the worlds most expensive F 1 .

Earlier competition wouldve been the square case square tank Ducati GTS / darmah . Yes . Right . Well .How about NOW .
The one rule to the exception , is theres the exeption to each rule .
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Re: A Short History of the Wankel Motorcycles

Postby Cheesy » Tue Nov 29, 2011 7:53 pm

This one would have been seriously cool at the time, in fact if I had the money I would try and build a custom version of this today!

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Re: A Short History of the Wankel Motorcycles

Postby Vulin » Tue Nov 29, 2011 8:49 pm

I built and raced a rx7 for a few years. I have always wanted a rotary bike. If I ever have some spare change laying around, and a F1 comes for sale, its mine!
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Re: A Short History of the Wankel Motorcycles

Postby Cheesy » Wed Nov 30, 2011 9:08 pm

Vulin wrote:I built and raced a rx7 for a few years. I have always wanted a rotary bike. If I ever have some spare change laying around, and a F1 comes for sale, its mine!


The Norton engine looks like a toy beside a Mazda one, Ive got a picture somewhere of a 13b rotor sitting on a Norton plate, there isnt much plate showing....
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Re: A Short History of the Wankel Motorcycles

Postby Matt Spencer » Wed Nov 30, 2011 11:32 pm

The Mazda's a bit heavier , but then again , a NVT Triple Rotor would be intresting .
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Re: A Short History of the Wankel Motorcycles

Postby Matt Spencer » Fri Dec 02, 2011 9:19 pm

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Last edited by Matt Spencer on Fri Dec 02, 2011 9:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: A Short History of the Wankel Motorcycles

Postby Unclviny » Fri Dec 02, 2011 9:47 pm

I have always wanted a Hercules W2000, the quickest car I have ever ridden in was a well-heated-up Mazda Cosmo (an RX7 engine in a car that weighed like a Bug!).

Vince
http://www.vinceandersononline.com
1973-1/2 BMW R75/5 (LWB)
1971 Norton Commando
1952 Triumph TRW
1936 BMW R2
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Re: A Short History of the Wankel Motorcycles

Postby ZFD » Sun Dec 04, 2011 6:48 am

Bought the Norton factory's W2000 evaluation bike many years ago (1980s), had a test ride, sold it straight on. A dead bockwurst compared to any other rotary (27bhp!), not exciting at all. Years later rode our F1 racebike on the track- 140bhp, 140kg- slightly different performance........ Joe Seifert/Andover Norton
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Re: A Short History of the Wankel Motorcycles

Postby Cheesy » Fri Dec 16, 2011 2:16 pm

Here is an end plate sitting beside a Mazda rotor for a size comparison, you may also be able to pick out one of the Nortons weaknesses from the picture

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Re: A Short History of the Wankel Motorcycles

Postby Vulin » Fri Dec 16, 2011 8:02 pm

Looks like just plain aluminum. The side and corner seals would eat that material up pretty quickly. Mazda housings are chrome plated and the side irons are nitrided.
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Re: A Short History of the Wankel Motorcycles

Postby Cheesy » Sat Dec 17, 2011 12:11 am

Vulin wrote:Looks like just plain aluminum. The side and corner seals would eat that material up pretty quickly. Mazda housings are chrome plated and the side irons are nitrided.


Almost, its a hyperutectic aluminium but the surface is etched so it has a high silicon content and is slightly porous, I never got around to it but the easy fix is to machine the surface back a mm or so and plasma/thermal spray a molybdenum or nickle/silicon/iron based coating and then grind it back. The rotor housings are plated but I dont think that they had the steel insert that the Mazda ones had.

Even though the Mazda stuff looks pretty basic they put a hell of a lot of R&D into it, especially the seals, the apex seals are over twice as hard on the housing wear surface than the bit that sits in the rotor slot, completely different micro structure as well. The corner seals are an incredibly fine grain cast iron while the side seals are a very porous iron.
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