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Set the Pazon on the back distributor

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Set the Pazon on the back distributor

Postby pierodn » Sat Oct 29, 2016 9:53 am

Hi.
Time ago Les replayed to me but, sorry, i forget and i dont find that topic.
Is my first set of the Pazon on the rear distributor.
On Commando i set the red point on the trigger on the anticlockwise hole of the plate.
But the distributor cam turns backward compared to Commando.
So i think the set must be clockwise, the red point on the trigger should be alineed with the clockwise hole of the plate.
Please, i need your advices.
Thanks.
Piero

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Re: Set the Pazon on the back distributor

Postby dave M » Sat Oct 29, 2016 10:12 am

Piero, The Pazon instructions are quite clear that the red dot must be lined up through a different hole for clockwise or anticlockwise, simply rotate the engine and see which way the rotor in the distributor moves. I must warn you that on my G15 I used an electronic system (Boyer) that I took off another of my bikes (working perfectly) but some of the solder on the plate touched the rotor and I ended up having to make a gasket for the plate to get sufficient space for clearance. I think the distance between the taper shaft and the body of the distributor is a little different to the space in the later cam-shaft driven points position.

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Re: Set the Pazon on the back distributor

Postby pierodn » Sat Oct 29, 2016 2:56 pm

Hi Dave.
I understand but the question remains.
The distributor sprocket turns clockwise but the distributor cam turns anticlockwise.
The Commando S Point cam turns clockwise and you set anticlockwise.
I think that the set should be clockwise.
?????
Thank you.
Pieto

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Re: Set the Pazon on the back distributor

Postby L.A.B. » Sun Oct 30, 2016 2:47 am

pierodn wrote:I understand but the question remains.
The distributor sprocket turns clockwise but the distributor cam turns anticlockwise.


This depends on the position left or right that you look at it.

When you set ignition the timing for the 20M3 'distributor' (points housing) you are looking at it from the LEFT-HAND side of the bike, therefore the distributor sprocket and cam both turn clockwise as you look at it (although you can't actually see the distributor sprocket) so you set it for clockwise rotation.



pierodn wrote:The Commando S Point cam turns clockwise and you set anticlockwise.
I think that the set should be clockwise.


When you set the 'S' type assembly, you are viewing it from the RIGHT-HAND side, therefore, the cam and points cam (or electronic ignition rotor) both rotate anticlockwise (for a Norton but not a Triumph twin) as you look at it, so you set it for anticlockwise rotation.
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Re: Set the Pazon on the back distributor

Postby pierodn » Sun Oct 30, 2016 4:58 am

Hi Les,
thank you, i understand.
Ciao
Piero

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Re: Set the Pazon on the back distributor

Postby pierodn » Wed Apr 12, 2017 6:39 am

L.A.B. wrote:
pierodn wrote:I understand but the question remains.
The distributor sprocket turns clockwise but the distributor cam turns anticlockwise.


This depends on the position left or right that you look at it.

When you set ignition the timing for the 20M3 'distributor' (points housing) you are looking at it from the LEFT-HAND side of the bike, therefore the distributor sprocket and cam both turn clockwise as you look at it (although you can't actually see the distributor sprocket) so you set it for clockwise rotation.



pierodn wrote:The Commando S Point cam turns clockwise and you set anticlockwise.
I think that the set should be clockwise.


When you set the 'S' type assembly, you are viewing it from the RIGHT-HAND side, therefore, the cam and points cam (or electronic ignition rotor) both rotate anticlockwise (for a Norton but not a Triumph twin) as you look at it, so you set it for anticlockwise rotation.


Hi Les,
Please, i need to retard the timing.
But i cannot use strobo light.
For retard the timing i must rotate the electronic plate (in the rear distributor whit the trigger firm) clock or anticlock wise?.
Thank you.
Piero

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Re: Set the Pazon on the back distributor

Postby L.A.B. » Wed Apr 12, 2017 3:55 pm

pierodn wrote:Please, i need to retard the timing.
But i cannot use strobo light.
For retard the timing i must rotate the electronic plate (in the rear distributor whit the trigger firm) clock or anticlock wise?.


To retard, turn the plate in the same direction as the electronic rotor (or AAU) rotation, so for the rear 'distributor' housing when looking at it from the left side, turn the plate clockwise to retard.
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Re: Set the Pazon on the back distributor

Postby pierodn » Thu Apr 13, 2017 12:03 am

L.A.B. wrote:
pierodn wrote:Please, i need to retard the timing.
But i cannot use strobo light.
For retard the timing i must rotate the electronic plate (in the rear distributor whit the trigger firm) clock or anticlock wise?.


To retard, turn the plate in the same direction as the electronic rotor (or AAU) rotation, so for the rear 'distributor' housing when looking at it from the left side, turn the plate clockwise to retard.


Hi Les.
Sorry, but the electronic rotor (trigger) seems to me that turns anticlockwise and the sprocket clockwise.
Thanks or helping me.
Piero

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Re: Set the Pazon on the back distributor

Postby L.A.B. » Thu Apr 13, 2017 1:22 am

pierodn wrote:Sorry, but the electronic rotor (trigger) seems to me that turns anticlockwise and the sprocket clockwise.


That would be impossible. The sprocket and rotor are at opposite ends of the same shaft so they cannot rotate in opposite directions.

Use the kickstart and observe the rotor rotation.
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Re: Set the Pazon on the back distributor

Postby pierodn » Thu Apr 13, 2017 1:28 am

Hi Les.
Sorry, i was in great wrong.
Trigger clock, and sprocket anticlock.
Thank you so much.
Piero

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Re: Set the Pazon on the back distributor

Postby L.A.B. » Thu Apr 13, 2017 1:36 am

pierodn wrote:Sorry, i was in great wrong.
Trigger clock, and sprocket anticlock.



Both must rotate in the same direction when viewed from the left, which is clockwise, unless you are thinking of the sprocket looking from the right-hand side? :?
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Re: Set the Pazon on the back distributor

Postby pierodn » Thu Apr 13, 2017 4:46 am

L.A.B. wrote:
pierodn wrote:Sorry, i was in great wrong.
Trigger clock, and sprocket anticlock.



Both must rotate in the same direction when viewed from the left, which is clockwise, unless you are thinking of the sprocket looking from the right-hand side? :?


Hi Les,
yes, both clockwise from the left viewue.
The problem is that with 20M3S i set the Pazon at 31degree static and then i use the strobolight (5.000 rpm i find about 47/48 degree) to reset 31degree at 5.000 rpm.
Is very easy with the degree scale on the outer primary cover.
But the P11 doesnt have the degree scale and is not easy with a degree wheel without cover.
I have setted the P11 timing at 31 degree static.
The bike started well with a strong compression but not chick back.
Then, after your advices, i have rotate clockwise, a little bit, the ignition plate with the trigger hold in place.
The bike starts well but i cannot feel any differences.
Thank you.
Piero

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Re: Set the Pazon on the back distributor

Postby L.A.B. » Thu Apr 13, 2017 5:16 am

pierodn wrote:The problem is that with 20M3S i set the Pazon at 31degree static and then i use the strobolight (5.000 rpm i find about 47/48 degree) to reset 31degree at 5.000 rpm.
Is very easy with the degree scale on the outer primary cover.
But the P11 doesnt have the degree scale and is not easy with a degree wheel without cover.


As you don't have a timing scale then one answer is to use a degree disc (and piston stop to find TDC) and then make your own (31 degree) timing marks.



pierodn wrote:I have setted the P11 timing at 31 degree static.
The bike started well with a strong compression but not chick back.


So what made you think it needed retarding?


pierodn wrote:Then, after your advices, i have rotate clockwise, a little bit, the ignition plate with the trigger hold in place.
The bike starts well but i cannot feel any differences.


"A little bit" may not be enough to notice, however, unless you know the accuracy of your starting point you don't know whether you are moving the plate it the right direction or not or if it needed to be moved at all.
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Re: Set the Pazon on the back distributor

Postby pierodn » Thu Apr 13, 2017 1:14 pm

.[/quote]As you don't have a timing scale then one answer is to use a degree disc (and piston stop to find TDC) and then make your own (31 degree) timing marks. .[/quote]

Hi Les,
Please, what does it mean "to find TDC" and then make your own (31 degree) timing marks.
The 31 degree timing marks is not to BTDC?.
I usually start from TDC (right in/ex valves full closed) and then i turn backward of 31degree and set the trigger point into the hole of the plate.
Let me undertand better.
Thank you.
Piero

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Re: Set the Pazon on the back distributor

Postby L.A.B. » Thu Apr 13, 2017 1:38 pm

pierodn wrote:Please, what does it mean "to find TDC" and then make your own (31 degree) timing marks.
The 31 degree timing marks is not to BTDC?.


If there is no timing scale then to find 31 degrees BTDC you must first find TDC.



pierodn wrote:I usually start from TDC (right in/ex valves full closed)


Yes, but what method do you use to accurately find TDC?


pierodn wrote: and then i turn backward of 31degree and set the trigger point into the hole of the plate.



How can you be sure your 31 degree TDC setting is accurate unless your starting point (TDC) is known to be accurate?

Setting electronic ignitions statically by lining up a dot of paint with a hole is not totally accurate, and that is why electronic ignition manufacturers normally recommend the final timing check is done with a strobe.
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