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SBR Norton

Classic Norton Commando Motorcycles.

Re: SBR Norton

Postby SteveA » Mon Aug 07, 2017 12:37 am

72Combat wrote: I've seen the SBR Norton in action here and hard case to see it passing pre 89 bikes.


We may have a language issue here, what do you mean?

By the way it went in the UK against pre '86 bikes in the UK I am guessing you mean it does pass them? Or maybe it isn't so easy when they are all running methanol and other features not permitted under UK rules? Be interesting to know.

There is no doubt that James Flitcroft was a significant part of the package on the trip, but he had a tool to work with. I don't know if he rode the bike in NZ.

I hope to catch up with at least one rider who was chasing him in the UK when I go to Gedinne weekend after next. Clearly they had no answer to the package, very fast well engineered motorcycle with very fast young man on board.

I wonder how long they continued to chase hard after the first encounter when it became clear the SBR was not running for points, but lap record demonstrations (which of course they got, mostly by a significant margin).

I am sure any racer would go for it for reasons of pride, but possibly not up to the point of falling off and losing your own championship potential.
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Re: SBR Norton

Postby G81 Can Cycle » Mon Aug 07, 2017 7:57 am

Brooking 850 wrote:Snotzo, yes billet cases made in NZ and initiated by the 'S' in the SBR name.
Jim Comstock has a set , as do I for my next build.
Regards Mike


I also have billet cases from NZ on my NYC Seeley Commando race bike Jim Comstock built the engine and did a great job.

We have also installed some of Brooking 850 exhaust systems on two of our other Commando race bikes. These exhaust systems are spectacular

I have been following the SBR group on Facebook. The bike looks great. I would like to know how their front suspension is working. I am getting terrible chatter on mine after several attempts to dial it in with different springs, preload, and damping changes. What are they using, and I would love to discuss some business about setting up my front end better (if SBR's is chatter free)

John
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Re: SBR Norton

Postby SteveA » Mon Aug 07, 2017 11:15 am

G81 Can Cycle wrote:
Brooking 850 wrote:Snotzo, yes billet cases made in NZ and initiated by the 'S' in the SBR name.
Jim Comstock has a set , as do I for my next build.
Regards Mike


I also have billet cases from NZ on my NYC Seeley Commando race bike Jim Comstock built the engine and did a great job.

We have also installed some of Brooking 850 exhaust systems on two of our other Commando race bikes. These exhaust systems are spectacular

I have been following the SBR group on Facebook. The bike looks great. I would like to know how their front suspension is working. I am getting terrible chatter on mine after several attempts to dial it in with different springs, preload, and damping changes. What are they using, and I would love to discuss some business about setting up my front end better (if SBR's is chatter free)

John


John, first question is what forks do you have and are they set up as advised by the supplier, meaning NYC. If I recall correctly from previously posted pictures of your bike you have Norton based forks, and I am guessing Maxton or Cosentino inserts, and probably a Tichmarsh frame. In other words your bike will comply with US and UK race rules, which as we know the SBR doesn't.

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid ... =3&theater

Look at the pics on FB and you will see that SBR are using a later fork design with larger diameter stanchions, my guess is 38mm minimum, maybe more. Stroke does not look that long, but they probably have more spring choice than you do. Thier frame is also stiffer than a more traditional Seeley copy, beefed up swing arm mount (and probably swinging arm too), I understand the geometry differs as well.

I suspect nobody would be riding as fast as James Flitcroft has been if they were experiencing severe chatter, so lets assume that they have it well set up and have developed a good knowledge of set up options.

But their set up is unlikely to be of any value to you with a different frame, suspension and power delivery, and without a lightweight rider like James, meaning it wouldn't help me much either! It is probably biased to put a lot more weight on the front :?

As for the exhaust, we all understand that Brooking and his suppliers have done a great job in manufacture, but they are recreating a sound design from Steve Maney that has been around some years.
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Re: SBR Norton

Postby Brooking 850 » Mon Aug 07, 2017 1:24 pm

Hi Steve, yes James rode the bike in NZ last year and did very well on it. The guy who was the regular rider had been hurt a couple of years ago at the cemetery road circuit in Whanganui, the traditional Boxing day races in NZ
Dont forget this has taken them 20 years of development.

Hard Case as in humourous , funny.

Yes the exhaust systems are a CLOSE copy of Steve Maney's, as are many 2 into 1 systems that are upswept to the left.
I wrote to Steve asking if he would like us to produce his exact copies as his were no longer available, he said he wasnt bothered.
The first set we made was an exact copy of a Maney system that a mate had leant me, our copy didnt fit as the original unit was made for a Rob North frame as we found out later.
Our systems are for a standard Commando frame, a road bike version and a race version.
The road bike version is made to fit a little wider on the frame to clear the LHS side cover and incorporates an inner heat shield, the race version tucks in closer to the frame and no inner heat shield.
We did a before and after dyno runs to make sure we had made gains in both P & T outputs before we offered them for sale.
This was done on a performance motor.
Thanks John in Florida for your endorsement
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Re: SBR Norton

Postby jseng1 » Mon Aug 07, 2017 2:42 pm

Brooking 850 wrote:Hi Steve, yes James rode the bike in NZ last year and did very well on it. The guy who was the regular rider had been hurt a couple of years ago at the cemetery road circuit in Whanganui, the traditional Boxing day races in NZ
Dont forget this has taken them 20 years of development.

Hard Case as in humourous , funny.

Yes the exhaust systems are a CLOSE copy of Steve Maney's, as are many 2 into 1 systems that are upswept to the left.
I wrote to Steve asking if he would like us to produce his exact copies as his were no longer available, he said he wasnt bothered.
The first set we made was an exact copy of a Maney system that a mate had leant me, our copy didnt fit as the original unit was made for a Rob North frame as we found out later.
Our systems are for a standard Commando frame, a road bike version and a race version.
The road bike version is made to fit a little wider on the frame to clear the LHS side cover and incorporates an inner heat shield, the race version tucks in closer to the frame and no inner heat shield.
We did a before and after dyno runs to make sure we had made gains in both P & T outputs before we offered them for sale.
This was done on a performance motor.
Thanks John in Florida for your endorsement
Rega


I got one of Brookings 1st exhaust systems and passed it on to a customer. He's is on top of his product, paying close attention to detail and customer satisfaction. There's a lot of demand for these exhaust systems and he was smart to pick them up when Steve quit making them.
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Re: SBR Norton

Postby acotrel » Tue Aug 08, 2017 11:42 pm

In Australian historic racing, methanol fuel is legal in pre-1973 manufactured motors. It is also legal in speedway racing. It is much easier on motors and performance is usually better. The expense of the fuel is offset by the benefits. I would never race with anything else. - Even in two strokes. My brother often races a 750cc H2 Kawasaki-engine sidecar in historic speedway racing. It is simply too fast, his other bike is a 500cc H1 Kawasaki - it is fast enough to win any race. In one race the H2 jumped 3 metres into the back of another outfit chucked both rider and passenger over the front, then jumped over them. There were 4 bends in the sidecar, and even the rear wheel was bent. When tuning with it in a two-stroke motor, you need to be VERY CAREFUL.
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Re: SBR Norton

Postby jseng1 » Wed Aug 09, 2017 10:16 am

G81 Can Cycle wrote:
Brooking 850 wrote:Snotzo, yes billet cases made in NZ and initiated by the 'S' in the SBR name.
Jim Comstock has a set , as do I for my next build.
Regards Mike


I also have billet cases from NZ on my NYC Seeley Commando race bike Jim Comstock built the engine and did a great job.

We have also installed some of Brooking 850 exhaust systems on two of our other Commando race bikes. These exhaust systems are spectacular

I have been following the SBR group on Facebook. The bike looks great. I would like to know how their front suspension is working. I am getting terrible chatter on mine after several attempts to dial it in with different springs, preload, and damping changes. What are they using, and I would love to discuss some business about setting up my front end better (if SBR's is chatter free)

John


You didn't say what forks you are using. If they're Norton forks then you can spend the $ on dampening systems or get the same result a lot cheaper by modifying the stock dampers for better rebound and adding a little compression dampening as shown in this link:

http://www.jsmotorsport.com/technical_Fork_upgrades.asp

The other big improvement to Norton forks is to extend the top bushings so there is more overlap and less binding but this is custom machine work requiring a special top collar.
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Re: SBR Norton

Postby SteveA » Wed Aug 09, 2017 1:57 pm

No Jim, He doesn't say here what he is using but he does say it here:

been-while-here-the-newest-bears-bike-from-comnoz-and-t27171.html?hilit=nyc%20norton#p358725

And the answer is this:

'Roadholder forks with Cosentino shim-stack internals'

And I therefore stick by my earlier suggestion to go back to the builder (NYC) and supplier (Cosentino) for advice.

We know they have them working elsewhere, may just need adjustment for rider style, or a thorough check through on set up.

.....looks like the big buck have already been spent!
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Re: SBR Norton

Postby Brooking 850 » Thu Aug 10, 2017 1:05 am

Hi John and Steve A, I had chatter with my front end for some time and it took awhile to get sorted.
I am running an 18' rim with an Avon 90/90/18" AM26 and the chatter used to come about when tipped over in a corner with no real power on or braking on, IE neutral position on the suspension.
I tried everything , as I have Lansdowne needle inserts, I messed with settings on both needles, played with different oil weights , tyre pressures but still no joy. I even tried another tyre as well.
After a lot of frustration and slower corner speeds with the lack of confidence due to the chatter, I sent the wheel off for truing.
The wheel guy found nil run out with the circumference , but there was quite a bit side ways in the rim that went unnoticed.
$100 NZD put paid to my chatter.
Hope this helps
regards Mike
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Re: SBR Norton

Postby SteveA » Thu Aug 10, 2017 1:37 am

Brooking 850 wrote:Hi John and Steve A, I had chatter with my front end for some time and it took awhile to get sorted.
I am running an 18' rim with an Avon 90/90/18" AM26 and the chatter used to come about when tipped over in a corner with no real power on or braking on, IE neutral position on the suspension.
I tried everything , as I have Lansdowne needle inserts, I messed with settings on both needles, played with different oil weights , tyre pressures but still no joy. I even tried another tyre as well.
After a lot of frustration and slower corner speeds with the lack of confidence due to the chatter, I sent the wheel off for truing.
The wheel guy found nil run out with the circumference , but there was quite a bit side ways in the rim that went unnoticed.
$100 NZD put paid to my chatter.
Hope this helps
regards Mike


This is interesting Mike. I have only really experienced chatter at one circuit with my Maxton set up, but it was in the medium to faster corners, not low speed. Snetterton 300 has a tight sweeper that opens onto the back straight, and I had chatter there. After discussion with those much more experienced with set up than I, we increased compression damping one notch! Sorted, only to reveal similar chatter later in the lap at Coram, one more notch, done. We assume that the extra confidence after sorting the first manifestation encouraged me to ride harder everywhere. Minimal change from as supplied settings, designed for my weight!

I am inclined to think one key for John is to find a set up that helps him build confidence in what he has. Looks like he has quality kit to start with. Surely Kenny has a base solution for set up?

But clearly a run through of basics including wheel alignments, balance and run out might be worthwhile.

I bought a race bike, a GSXR750F, and went straight to the race meeting! Exiting onto the front straight it tended to pick up the front and the head immediately to the left and track edge! hese bkes had a bad reputation (unfairly) so I just lived with it for that meeting and tried to sort other problem, there were many PO induced ones!

Made sense on when on investigation in the workshop with my straight edges revealed the rear wheel alignment to be well off, when the front came upm it went where the rear wheel pointed!
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Re: SBR Norton

Postby jseng1 » Fri Aug 11, 2017 1:45 pm

I used to have chatter when bottoming out braking for the turns. I made new top collars to raise the top bushing give more overlap between the bushings and reduce binding. I made slippery synthetic bushings. I made some modified dampers that had compression damping. It was smooth as glass and handled like a dream. Rob Tuluie had some good things to say about it when he got it on the AMA BOTT podium against monoshock ducs (Ken was the owner by then). But for that much work you might as well get later better forks if they're legal.
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Re: SBR Norton

Postby Brooking 850 » Fri Aug 11, 2017 3:25 pm

Hi Jim, mine is sorted now, I do have your blue bushes in them and Lansdwone needls and cartridges.

Regards Mike
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