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Rubber dampers

Modern 961 Norton Commando Motorcycles

Re: Rubber dampers

Postby Raphi » Sat May 14, 2016 10:51 am

TonyA wrote:Hello Raphi , Is it possible that the sprocket carrier stubs are not fully engaged into the rubber dampers ? For example is the bearing in the wheel hub not fully driven into the hub ? This might cause the sprocket carrier not to fully engage the buffers. ?

Don't think that this is the case. There is not much space between sprocket carrier and where the dampers are...
Maybe it is a problem when aggressive liquid (from lubrication or cleaning?) gets in contact with the rubber. I don't know. Let's hope that is - like DBono said - just some sets of dampers that are of bad quality...
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Re: Rubber dampers

Postby richard-7 » Sat May 14, 2016 11:14 am

I would think these are a wheel manufacturer item not Norton.
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Re: Rubber dampers

Postby Norton961 » Mon May 16, 2016 2:34 pm

I have this same problem. Spoke to the factory in the UK and they advise the material has been updated to improve life of the dampers, but most likely failure is due to over tightening of the chain. I'm waiting on new dampers via South Bay Norton.
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Re: Rubber dampers

Postby Norton961 » Sun Jun 12, 2016 7:27 am

failed dampers destroyed the wheel hub on mine. I'm waiting on a complete wheel and hub assembky with an updated design. I believe the washers are inferior material and can't handle the torque. High grade (aircraft) neoprene would most likely be the solution.
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Re: Rubber dampers

Postby Norton961 » Sat Jun 18, 2016 4:42 pm

As stated previously, I have a damaged rear hub from a failure just like this. I have sharp aluminum hub material now protruding into the space where the rubber washers reside. It is now a rubber washer blender/eater.

Norton first said they would replace the whole wheel assembly, but after waiting several weeks for it, I've just been told (today) the factory has rejected the warranty claim. The bike is 18 mos into the warranty with only 3500 miles on the odometer.

It's clear Norton is aware of this issue with the Talon hubs because it was discussed with me at length when I called to discuss rubber pieces coming out of the hub.

The bike has been down for almost a month now and this is an unacceptable position Norton has taken on the warranty claim. More to follow.
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Re: Rubber dampers

Postby Fast Eddie » Sat Jun 18, 2016 8:41 pm

Norton961 wrote:As stated previously, I have a damaged rear hub from a failure just like this. I have sharp aluminum hub material now protruding into the space where the rubber washers reside. It is now a rubber washer blender/eater.

Norton first said they would replace the whole wheel assembly, but after waiting several weeks for it, I've just been told (today) the factory has rejected the warranty claim. The bike is 18 mos into the warranty with only 3500 miles on the odometer.

It's clear Norton is aware of this issue with the Talon hubs because it was discussed with me at length when I called to discuss rubber pieces coming out of the hub.

The bike has been down for almost a month now and this is an unacceptable position Norton has taken on the warranty claim. More to follow.


What was their reason / logic for their rejection?
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Re: Rubber dampers

Postby Norton961 » Sun Jun 19, 2016 5:57 am

Fast Eddie wrote:
Norton961 wrote:As stated previously, I have a damaged rear hub from a failure just like this. I have sharp aluminum hub material now protruding into the space where the rubber washers reside. It is now a rubber washer blender/eater.

Norton first said they would replace the whole wheel assembly, but after waiting several weeks for it, I've just been told (today) the factory has rejected the warranty claim. The bike is 18 mos into the warranty with only 3500 miles on the odometer.

It's clear Norton is aware of this issue with the Talon hubs because it was discussed with me at length when I called to discuss rubber pieces coming out of the hub.

The bike has been down for almost a month now and this is an unacceptable position Norton has taken on the warranty claim. More to follow.


What was their reason / logic for their rejection?


per SBN, something to the affect that he (me) should have known they were bad. There were no symptons of anything wrong from a ridability perspective. The issue was first discovered while cleaning the rear wheel. There were pieces of rubber sticking out between the hub and sprocket carrier. As soon as this was discovered, I called the UK and spoke to a tech which is referenced in one of my previous posts above. The tech told me some of the bikes had the older inferior rubber washers and that the material had been updated. 47 miles later, the new washers arrived and the hub damage was discovered when I dismounted the wheel to replace them.

Please note there is a lot of dealer and factory knowledge of this issue and some of that info is posted here by others, supported by my conversations with SBN and direct conversations with the factory.

There is no service bulletin on the issue; there is nothing in the manual that calls for an inspection.

This bike has been in and out of the dealer here in Dallas many times for warranty work over the last 12 months and clearly no inpsection was being done that would have discovered this up until I found it through a detailing/cleaning activity.

Pretty rediculous situation with 3500 miles on the bike.

Note the 'made in China' bearing.
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Re: Rubber dampers

Postby richard-7 » Mon Jun 20, 2016 6:29 am

I`d like to share a story now that you've shared this CHINA picture. I`m not saying this story applies across the board on all bearings made in China or any other bearings in the Norton but I`ll share what I personally studied with bearings made in China. I just spent the last quarter of last year testing bearings for tattoo equipment to reduce noise and get a more consistent amperage usage. I`ll tell you from my experience! I studied $1.00 per pc bearings that were made in CHINA and the same spec bearings made in Japan or Germany were between $5-$7.00 a pc. 10mm od and 3mm ID sealed bearing. There were no options of a better more expensive same spec bearing from China. I realize this is a lot smaller than anything in the bikes but the results blew us all away so read on if you`re interested.

THE IMPORTANT FACT IS ALL THREE BEARINGS HAD THE EXACT SAME SPECS!!! (but you will see that 1 of the 3 cheat the specs.) And the only reason this came up is because a purchaser thought he was doing good saving the company money on the same spec bearing. But after assembly, during testing it was obvious the machines were more noisy. We thought we had a bad batch and ordered another 1,500 bearings (from China). The purchaser did nothing wrong -- he was doing his job. No one got fired as a result of this experiment.. lol

With only changing the bearing and nothing else in a rotary style tattoo machine

CHINA BEARINGS
Decibel level range 62-87 (price$1.12 CDN each)

JAPANESE and GERMAN had the same results so I will combine them.
Decibel level range 56-58 (price approx. $6.00 each CDN)

Also the JAP and German bearings use approx. 9% less amperage under the same conditions.

And the temperature was 1.20 degrees Celsius less on the Jap or German bearings after 1hr of being in use under a controlled environment.

So, food for thought. PS : the tattoo machines now use only Japanese bearings. :mrgreen:

Sorry for hi jacking your thread.
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Re: Rubber dampers

Postby spannerhands » Tue Jun 21, 2016 4:12 am

Just to hijack this thread a little further the bearing in the picture is made by NSK which is a Japanese company with over 40 production sites world wide. Including some in Germany. They will have been manufactured to Japanese standards. Very different to some home grown Chinese low cost bearing manufacturers.
When buying bearings from major players such as SKF , NTL and NSK they often come from a wide variety of source countries depending on which plant is currently running that particular bearing.
I have not heard of a wheel bearing failure on a Norton 961.

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Re: Rubber dampers

Postby richard-7 » Tue Jun 21, 2016 8:38 am

spannerhands wrote:Just to hijack this thread a little further the bearing in the picture is made by NSK which is a Japanese company with over 40 production sites world wide. Including some in Germany. They will have been manufactured to Japanese standards. Very different to some home grown Chinese low cost bearing manufacturers.
When buying bearings from major players such as SKF , NTL and NSK they often come from a wide variety of source countries depending on which plant is currently running that particular bearing.
I have not heard of a wheel bearing failure on a Norton 961.



I have never heard of rear wheel bearing failure either -- just to note!

and >>> this hi-jack just made my day!! Thanks for sharing. Okay -- back to dampers now.. :twisted:
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Re: Rubber dampers

Postby contours » Thu Jun 23, 2016 12:45 pm

Norton961 wrote:failed dampers destroyed the wheel hub on mine. I'm waiting on a complete wheel and hub assembky with an updated design. I believe the washers are inferior material and can't handle the torque. High grade (aircraft) neoprene would most likely be the solution.


This is not what one should expect from a new machine! I am thinking I am fortunate now having the BST wheels on mine.
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Re: Rubber dampers

Postby Norton961 » Fri Sep 02, 2016 9:31 am

At this point, I'm not sure why Norton is even allowed to sell the new bikes in the US. Aftermarket support is horrendous. I also note Stephen Green didn't survive as the new aftermarket guy at the factory in the UK.
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Re: Rubber dampers

Postby glb » Fri Sep 02, 2016 12:18 pm

I am not sure if 'didn't survive' is the right comment as he was head hunted by a rival (Triumph) for more money. The UK support may need chasing on occasions but we do get the service here.

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Re: Rubber dampers

Postby Norton961 » Mon Sep 05, 2016 8:08 am

that still equates to didn't survive. 1) I bet he was really enjoying what he had to deal with 2) he was probably underpaid for what he was having to sort through on a regular basis 3) good people usually don't stick around if the job isn't rewarding 4) I assume it wouldn't have taken much to lure him away.
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Re: Rubber dampers

Postby Britfan60 » Thu Apr 13, 2017 3:40 pm

Stephen Green. He promised me an extended warranty of an extra year since my bike was out of commission for 19 of the first 24 months of ownership. Ha!! Just to have the factory tell me....."He was good for promising things that weren't true. Not in writing, you don't have an extended warranty." That got me a little peeved. Lies and deception. Ok. Enough of that. My dampers are shot too. Just got a new tire, noticed that I'm about to start eating aluminum if I don't replace them very soon. 7650 on the clock.
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