project

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project

Postby worntorn » Thu Dec 22, 2011 2:57 pm

A couple of winters back I decided to build a bike with a new high performance Vincent engine and sort of an Egli type frame.

The frame would be out of stainless steel, the front end is off an 03 Gixxer (a particularly light front end) and rear suspension is of my own design but borrows from the D series Vincent rather than Egli.

The starting point was to machine up the headstock and top spine.

Image


Glen
Last edited by worntorn on Thu Dec 22, 2011 7:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.
1975 Norton 850 MK111 Interstate
1968 Norton 650 SS
1947 Vincent Rapide 1000 series b (38th machine built after WW2)
1949 Vincent Rapide 1000 series C
2012 Vincent Glenli 1360
1972 Ossa 250 trials
1972 Ossa 250 trials
1982 Maico 490 Alpha One
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Re: project

Postby willh » Thu Dec 22, 2011 3:11 pm

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Re: project

Postby worntorn » Thu Dec 22, 2011 3:55 pm

I let things sit for a year while I contemplated how to proceed from here. I needed a Vincent engine to build from since I had no frame jig. My 47 Rapide was in great mechanical shape but had lots of nicks in the paint from the last 30 years of touring in Soctland, England, Australia and Canada. I decided to kill two birds and pull it apart , but I put it off until the end of the riding season in 2010.

http://s1233.photobucket.com/albums/ff3 ... ent001.jpg
1975 Norton 850 MK111 Interstate
1968 Norton 650 SS
1947 Vincent Rapide 1000 series b (38th machine built after WW2)
1949 Vincent Rapide 1000 series C
2012 Vincent Glenli 1360
1972 Ossa 250 trials
1972 Ossa 250 trials
1982 Maico 490 Alpha One
worntorn
 
Posts: 471
Joined: Fri Dec 22, 2006 11:43 pm
Location: Langley, B.C.

Re: project

Postby bwolfie » Thu Dec 22, 2011 4:11 pm

First of all let me start out with being gealous of your Vincent.

I like the project idea. BUt would offer this opinion. Ditch those wheels and go with modified Harley spoked hubs. I did a set for a custom build I was going to do, but changed direction. Now I am going to use them on A norley. Here is what I ended up with. 17" deep drop center rims on ss 40 spokes. I was using a 1993 GXXR 750 frontend. Here are some pictures.

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Great work so far, I will be following this one.
1972 Norton Combat Commando 750, 208946
1973 Norton Commando 850, 301517, Cafe
Featherbead Project, Norley Cafe Monoshock
1975 Yamaha XS 650, 750 big bore kit, 2nd owner.
1977 Yamaha XS 360
Owner, Wolff Welding LLC, Franklin, WI
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Re: project

Postby worntorn » Thu Dec 22, 2011 4:16 pm

I contemplated using wire spoked wheels at the start, but have grown to like the Gixxer wheels . They are very light in weight and strong. The purple will go , but it doesn't matter for now. Final wheel colour will be black center with two red pinstripes and polished outsides (the flats) ,just like an original vincent.

Here is the front end
Image
1975 Norton 850 MK111 Interstate
1968 Norton 650 SS
1947 Vincent Rapide 1000 series b (38th machine built after WW2)
1949 Vincent Rapide 1000 series C
2012 Vincent Glenli 1360
1972 Ossa 250 trials
1972 Ossa 250 trials
1982 Maico 490 Alpha One
worntorn
 
Posts: 471
Joined: Fri Dec 22, 2006 11:43 pm
Location: Langley, B.C.

Re: project

Postby worntorn » Thu Dec 22, 2011 4:34 pm

I'm a bit slow at sorting these photos and posting them to photoshop. Seems a slow way to go about it, but I guess that is the correct process here?

Here is the spine and head tube ready for heliarc with purge in place. Steel discs are made a press fit in bearing recesses in order to minimize distortion from welding.

Image

and here is the welded spine and headtube. I gave this a triple bead and weave as it is the weld which will see the most stress (front brake) as with all motorcycles.

Image
1975 Norton 850 MK111 Interstate
1968 Norton 650 SS
1947 Vincent Rapide 1000 series b (38th machine built after WW2)
1949 Vincent Rapide 1000 series C
2012 Vincent Glenli 1360
1972 Ossa 250 trials
1972 Ossa 250 trials
1982 Maico 490 Alpha One
worntorn
 
Posts: 471
Joined: Fri Dec 22, 2006 11:43 pm
Location: Langley, B.C.

Re: project

Postby 850cmndo » Thu Dec 22, 2011 5:50 pm

Nice bead.
'73 850 Roadster 300069
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Re: project

Postby worntorn » Thu Dec 22, 2011 6:10 pm

thanks
here it is after a bit of polishing;

Image


and here is the spine attached to front end. I replaced the headstock bearings with a new tapered roller conversion set.

Image
1975 Norton 850 MK111 Interstate
1968 Norton 650 SS
1947 Vincent Rapide 1000 series b (38th machine built after WW2)
1949 Vincent Rapide 1000 series C
2012 Vincent Glenli 1360
1972 Ossa 250 trials
1972 Ossa 250 trials
1982 Maico 490 Alpha One
worntorn
 
Posts: 471
Joined: Fri Dec 22, 2006 11:43 pm
Location: Langley, B.C.

Re: project

Postby worntorn » Thu Dec 22, 2011 6:37 pm

next up was to mill some alloy head backets to suit my plans. The standard Vincent head brackets are cast steel and have an offset built into them to allow for the offset in the cylinders. This goes back to the conrods sitting on a common crankpin beside one another.

Figuring out just how to make these brackets was a bit challenging. Copying the stock brackets wouldn't work because the drive chain wouldn't have clearance on the large rear tire I planned on using. So there was much calculating and measuring.

My first thought was to shift the engine to the right (from standard) in order to gain the clearance. After examining some other possibilities, the engine shift was the way to go. This put the longtitudinal centre of weight of the engine a little closer to the centre of the wheels than it is on a standard Vincent or on an Egli-Vincent.

I determined the longditudinal center or wieght by placing the engine on a steel roller and finding the balance point.

Image

here is the finished product on the engine. These are 3 pounds lighter than stock Vincent cast items.

Image
1975 Norton 850 MK111 Interstate
1968 Norton 650 SS
1947 Vincent Rapide 1000 series b (38th machine built after WW2)
1949 Vincent Rapide 1000 series C
2012 Vincent Glenli 1360
1972 Ossa 250 trials
1972 Ossa 250 trials
1982 Maico 490 Alpha One
worntorn
 
Posts: 471
Joined: Fri Dec 22, 2006 11:43 pm
Location: Langley, B.C.

Re: project

Postby worntorn » Thu Dec 22, 2011 7:16 pm

next was to get the spine and front end lined up on the engine in order to weld the mounting tangs to the spine. I used wooden spacers for this. The important thing here is that the centre line of the spine must parallel the engine crankcase joint so that the engine is in line with the wheels and frame when finished. The engine also should be vertically aligned with the wheel and front end.

Image


Image



top engine mounts tacked in place, Finally!

Image
Last edited by worntorn on Thu Dec 22, 2011 7:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.
1975 Norton 850 MK111 Interstate
1968 Norton 650 SS
1947 Vincent Rapide 1000 series b (38th machine built after WW2)
1949 Vincent Rapide 1000 series C
2012 Vincent Glenli 1360
1972 Ossa 250 trials
1972 Ossa 250 trials
1982 Maico 490 Alpha One
worntorn
 
Posts: 471
Joined: Fri Dec 22, 2006 11:43 pm
Location: Langley, B.C.

Re: project

Postby worntorn » Thu Dec 22, 2011 7:29 pm

fitting engine mount tangs. The front mount is fixed, the rear mount has a slide to allow for expansion of the motor as it warms.

Image


Front tang thickened

Image

rear tang slotted

Image
1975 Norton 850 MK111 Interstate
1968 Norton 650 SS
1947 Vincent Rapide 1000 series b (38th machine built after WW2)
1949 Vincent Rapide 1000 series C
2012 Vincent Glenli 1360
1972 Ossa 250 trials
1972 Ossa 250 trials
1982 Maico 490 Alpha One
worntorn
 
Posts: 471
Joined: Fri Dec 22, 2006 11:43 pm
Location: Langley, B.C.

Re: project

Postby worntorn » Thu Dec 22, 2011 7:42 pm

starting the 1" tubing at the rear of the frame. I used the mill to cope these joints. A good fit is essential for welding this thin wall material.

Image


had to turn up a couple of SS bobbins. These get welded into the tubing to form the lower motor mounts.

Image

rear downtubes coped for bobbins

Image

bobbins fit and ready for welding

Image


welded in

Image
Last edited by worntorn on Thu Dec 22, 2011 8:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.
1975 Norton 850 MK111 Interstate
1968 Norton 650 SS
1947 Vincent Rapide 1000 series b (38th machine built after WW2)
1949 Vincent Rapide 1000 series C
2012 Vincent Glenli 1360
1972 Ossa 250 trials
1972 Ossa 250 trials
1982 Maico 490 Alpha One
worntorn
 
Posts: 471
Joined: Fri Dec 22, 2006 11:43 pm
Location: Langley, B.C.

Re: project

Postby worntorn » Thu Dec 22, 2011 7:56 pm

I put an Oring sealed bung in the end of the top spine. The spine is also the oil tank so it will be good to have the bund for cleanout purposes.

Image
1975 Norton 850 MK111 Interstate
1968 Norton 650 SS
1947 Vincent Rapide 1000 series b (38th machine built after WW2)
1949 Vincent Rapide 1000 series C
2012 Vincent Glenli 1360
1972 Ossa 250 trials
1972 Ossa 250 trials
1982 Maico 490 Alpha One
worntorn
 
Posts: 471
Joined: Fri Dec 22, 2006 11:43 pm
Location: Langley, B.C.

Re: project

Postby beng » Thu Dec 22, 2011 8:55 pm

I thought about using stainless steel for a motorcycle frame before, but I think there is a reason that you don't ever see them much, it likes to crack when it is subjected to flexing and vibration.....good luck.
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Re: project

Postby worntorn » Thu Dec 22, 2011 9:11 pm

No, it is much more resistant to cracking from vibration than conventional materials but it is also a lot more expensive.

It also moves more during the welding process so it does not suit mass production.

Next time you cut off a piece of stainless, say a bolt or screw, leave a little bit of material at the bottom of the cut and try bending it back and forth to break it. This usually takes one or two flexes with carbon steels. It takes a lot more effort with stainless, perhaps ten flexes or more.

There have been two other Stainless Eglis built. One is now twenty years old. Neither has had any vibration cracking.
1975 Norton 850 MK111 Interstate
1968 Norton 650 SS
1947 Vincent Rapide 1000 series b (38th machine built after WW2)
1949 Vincent Rapide 1000 series C
2012 Vincent Glenli 1360
1972 Ossa 250 trials
1972 Ossa 250 trials
1982 Maico 490 Alpha One
worntorn
 
Posts: 471
Joined: Fri Dec 22, 2006 11:43 pm
Location: Langley, B.C.

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