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L.A.B.
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Joined: 20 Nov 2004
Posts: 1842
Location: Norfolk, UK
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 Posted: Sat Jun 28, 2008 12:09 am Post subject: |
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| thunderbay wrote: | | I confirmed the frame plate does say 850 MII and the serial number is 230943. It is held on with 4 straight slotted screws. Was that the original way of fastening them on? |
The plate should be fixed by what are known as "hammer-drive" rivets, and they would not have slots, and slotted screws were never used as far as I know?. If it is an 850 frame, then you should find another number (F1****) stamped vertically next to the plate? The information given on the plate does appear to tie in with the (Black?) German model certification plates: http://www.norvilmotorcycle.co.uk/064916.htm only the 230943 number itself seems to be odd, but there may be a perfectly innocent explanation for it? Unfortunately, we do not have many German members here.
Possibly member hewho.. may know why?
An 850 frame would normally have its part number stamped on the front face of the left-hand fuel tank mounting bracket? You may have to look very closely to see it, as the digits are small and not stamped very deeply.
| thunderbay wrote: | | The numbers on the engine do not match. Is there a data base of current Norton bikes' serial numbers. |
The engine, frame plate and gearbox numbers should all match if it was original?
There's no definitive database of Commando numbers on the Internet unfortunately. There is a list here for all Norton models that can be used as a guide: http://www.bmh.com.au/norton/index.php?id=modelnum.php however the majority of 850 serial numbers on that list have not been entered correctly! [Edit] The Sept. '73 750 "212278" number entry is also not correct, as that should read Sept '72, not '73.
Last edited by L.A.B. on Sat Jun 28, 2008 1:51 am; edited 1 time in total |
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79x100
Joined: 19 May 2006
Posts: 688
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| Posted: Sat Jun 28, 2008 1:36 am Post subject: |
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A couple of things come to mind here. As L.A.B. says, original Norton plates are fitted with hammer-drives and I'm sure that anything else such as screws or rivets means that the plate has been off at some time (and that it was done by someone who wasn't looking for 100% originality).
Germany has long had a reputation as the most expensive country in Europe for Nortons and, especially in Deutschmark days, German buyers would always pay top money. Dutch and Belgian sellers regularly advertised their bikes in Germany, even pre-eBay. That a bike cost 10,000 USD in Germany doesn't mean that it's 'worth' that elsewhere.
Belgium introduced Type Approval for motorcycles in 1973 and the recently-deceased former Norton importer told me that he didn't bother with the costs of homologating the 750 model as it was to be discontinued so all 1973 750s first registered in Belgium were documented as 850s. It's a minefield out there !
There is also the factor of Germany's very strong type-approval and Registration procedures and there is a great temptation to take the route of least resistance when it comes to registering a personal import. If this involves using the identity of a bike that was perhaps crashed or otherwise scrapped but where the paperwork still existed then I've seen plenty to suggest that this is what happens. |
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arch
Joined: 22 Jul 2004
Posts: 31
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| Posted: Sat Jun 28, 2008 2:36 pm Post subject: |
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Thunderbay said: "(the ID plate) is held on with 4 straight slotted screws" The ID plate was not held on by slotted screws. The factory used rivets.( of course you already knew that because it was mentioned early on in this thread)
The engine #202770 indicates it may be a Combat engine.
Check the transmission number. See if it matches the frame or the engine or is different. This bike may have been pieced together. This isn't neccesarily a bad thing but it should affect the value of the bike. |
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thunderbay
Joined: 25 Jun 2008
Posts: 12
Location: washington dc USA
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| Posted: Tue Jul 01, 2008 8:41 pm Post subject: |
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| hey my brother bought the bike for 3500 us and brought it home this evening. I will post pictures tomorrow. There is a wiring issue. From what we can tell there is electronic ignition. I can see a module up underthe tank and under the points cover. We are questioning how do we know if it pos or neg ground? We really wantto getitstarted nay help is appriciated. |
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L.A.B.
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Joined: 20 Nov 2004
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Location: Norfolk, UK
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thunderbay
Joined: 25 Jun 2008
Posts: 12
Location: washington dc USA
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| Posted: Wed Jul 02, 2008 12:33 pm Post subject: |
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| Thnks for referral to the manual. Is a printed copy available? |
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L.A.B.
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Joined: 20 Nov 2004
Posts: 1842
Location: Norfolk, UK
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| Posted: Wed Jul 02, 2008 12:44 pm Post subject: |
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| thunderbay wrote: | | Is a printed copy available? |
A Norton parts supplier should be able to get the correct manual for you.
A parts book is also available although the parts are on the Andover Norton (ANIL) website:
http://www.nortonmotors.de/ANIL/Distributors.htm
Andover Norton parts information: http://www.nortonmotors.de/ANIL/Norton%20Website/norton/ >Browse and order Norton Commando spares >Select Model.
_____________________________________
"PART NUMBER: 065146
DESCRIPTION: WKSP MANUAL 750/850, 1971-75"
____________________________________
(not for 850 Mk III) |
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arch
Joined: 22 Jul 2004
Posts: 31
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| Posted: Wed Jul 02, 2008 2:16 pm Post subject: Check this first |
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Remove the fuel tank and see if you can find a block of rubber with wires coming out of it.
This thing is a little time bomb Norton installed. This thing is nothing more than 5 straight through connectors in a single rubber block.
What happens after a few decades is the rubber crumbles and/or the metal sleeves split. This causes intermittant shorts and opens.
It can be replaced by 5 individual in-line connectors.
The Norton electrical system is not that complicated but Norton used cheap connectors.
BTW what sort of electrical problems are you having? |
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thunderbay
Joined: 25 Jun 2008
Posts: 12
Location: washington dc USA
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| Posted: Wed Jul 02, 2008 5:45 pm Post subject: |
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| I am not sure of what problems i have. It seems the previous owner was in midsteam of installing new wires. There are several wires that are not hooked to any thing. our focus is to verify a postive ground and then understand what type of ignition we have. |
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arch
Joined: 22 Jul 2004
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| Posted: Thu Jul 03, 2008 2:22 pm Post subject: |
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One of my bikes is 1974 850 with the original wiring harness. The harness came with connectors for every posible accessory that was available for any norton of that year. This included the Interpol.
It has connectors for all accessories on a police motorcycle. Thus there are a lot of unused connectors on my bike.
I don't know if aftermarket wiring harnesses have all of extra connectors or not.
I guess what I'm saying is don't get all freaked out - yet.
The wiring to make the bike run is very simple. Then you can add the lights, horn and all the other stuff. I don't know how handy or experienced you are with electrical wiring.
It may be a good idea to join the Nations Capital Norton Owners Club. It's $20.00 / year but it'll get you lots of help from Norton owners in your area.
Here's a link: http://www.ncno.org/about.htm
Good luck and keep us updated on your progress. |
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thunderbay
Joined: 25 Jun 2008
Posts: 12
Location: washington dc USA
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| Posted: Sun Jul 06, 2008 5:04 pm Post subject: |
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| Help ........we are pretty sure we have the boyer black box III and positve ground. The rubber cube is gone. We do not have spark at the plug. How do we know if the regulator is wired correctly? Is it not possible to trace the power from point to point? |
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Ron L
Joined: 27 Feb 2004
Posts: 1098
Location: Ohio
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| Posted: Mon Jul 07, 2008 3:41 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | How do we know if the regulator is wired correctly? |
Do you have an aftermarket regulator/rectifier or the original wafer rectifier with a separate zener diode? The aftermarket electronic regulator/rectifier will be a box approximately 2X2 or 2X3 with leads directly to the rotor and stator in the primary. |
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thunderbay
Joined: 25 Jun 2008
Posts: 12
Location: washington dc USA
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| Posted: Mon Jul 07, 2008 5:35 am Post subject: |
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| we have an aftermarket regulator |
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Ron L
Joined: 27 Feb 2004
Posts: 1098
Location: Ohio
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| Posted: Tue Jul 08, 2008 3:46 am Post subject: |
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If you are using the standard single phase alternator, the regulator/rectifier (Podtronics, Boyer, Tympanium, etc.) will have four wires. A red, a black, and usually two yellow. The red goes to a good ground, the black to the (-) battery, and the yellows to the green/white and green/yellow leads of the alternator stator. If the bike was converted to negative ground, then the black goes to ground and the red to the + side of the battery.
If the charging system has been upgraded to the three-phase system, you will have three yellow leads and three leads from the alternator. |
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thunderbay
Joined: 25 Jun 2008
Posts: 12
Location: washington dc USA
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| Posted: Wed Jul 09, 2008 3:46 pm Post subject: |
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| It seems we have 3 phase. the Boyer palstic box has 5 wires and there are 3 yellow wires from the regulator to the alternator/stator. I am trying to follow th power with my meter. What would be a series of checks to trace the power? Thanks in advance |
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Norton Commando Forum by Corporate Pages Web hosting using phpbb
The Unapproachable Norton Commando
At the end of 1967 the Norton Commando was announced.
The Norton Commando was greeted with a certain amount of scepticism because on first sight the commando appeared to comprise of the old Norton Dominator twin cylinder engine mounted at an inclined angle in a set of new cylinder parts.
It was not realized that the new Norton Commando Isolastic method of engine suspension damped out all engine vibration and produced a machine which had uncanny smoothness for a vertical twin. In due course the critics were silenced and the Norton Commando had the distinction of being regarded as the first of todays so called superbikes. There can be little doubt that the original design concept of the Norton Commando has proved correct, since comparatively few modifications of any real consequence have been made since production commenced during 1968.
Now nearly 40 years later Norton Commando riders like us are a breed of our own, and as far as we are concerned its still more fun to go for a blat on the old Norton Commando, and fast. As a Norton Commando owner and enthusiast, my goal here is to promote and give credit to those who keep the Norton name going.
It is more deserving to give credit to the Commando itself, for after all these years it continues to be respected. The original Commando designers like John Favill are those who deserve the credit for developing this incredible motorcycle.
The Norton Commando Roadster and Interstate of the late seventies, never died. Although the Norton Villiers factory dispersed the tradition lived on. Today Kenny Dreer in the USA is developing the new 952 CC Norton. What a great looking bike this is, and its engineering is still based on the original layout. It will be interesting to see how the new 952CC Norton does in todays tough motorcycle market. One thing is for sure, I would own one if I could afford it.
