Joined: 22 Feb 2007 Posts: 153 Location: Pennsylvania, USA
Posted: Wed Jun 18, 2008 4:01 pm Post subject: Norton 650SS
I've taken some interest of late in this model, not sure why. Don't really know all that much about it. I sure like how it looks.
Robert Smith, of Motorcycle Classics (www.motorcycleclassics.com), writes, "The 650SS was essentially a stroked version of the model 99SS, with dimensions of 68mm x 89mm (the 99’s stroke had been 82mm). Like the top Dominator, the 650SS breathed through twin Amal Monoblocs, but with the intakes now angled downwards. Twin exhausts replaced the 99SS “siamesed” system, and the headlight nacelle was dropped in favor of matched speedometer and tachometer. Finish went from the 99SS two-tone color scheme to a classic black frame, silver painted tank and (optional) chrome fenders. Though simple in concept, the overall effect was stunning. The black, silver, polished alloy and chrome finish created “the look” for sports motorcycles for a decade — until the metalflake Seventies."
He continues, "Sadly, though, the Atlas always overshadowed the 650SS. After all, cubes are cubes, and the Atlas simply had more. The 650SS was last produced in 1967 — a year after AMC went bust and was acquired by Dennis Poore’s Manganese-Bronze empire — though a single carburetor version, the Mercury, continued until 1969."
When I Googled the bike tonight, one came up for sale. Price seems a bit high, but again, she is a good looking machine.
Posted: Wed Jun 18, 2008 6:11 pm Post subject: Nice
Nice example, not stock, but nice. I had a 650 Manxman, it was really smooth and loved to rev, unfortunately, one rod sawed the case when it broke. I was told the 650s had fragile rods (duh) but with updated commando parts, they could last a lot longer.
Joined: 19 Oct 2005 Posts: 309 Location: Hong Kong
Posted: Thu Jun 19, 2008 4:47 pm Post subject:
Wrench, the 650SS is considered by many to be the pinacle of the Norton twin development, until the Commando came along. It was a 'hot-rod' and was the bike that was finally as fast or faster than the competition, the capacity of 650 was the largest that didn't produce too many unwanted vibrations. The Atlas and all of the pre-commando 750 variants had a bad reputation for vibration. The 650SS is considered a real classic hence the relatively high prices that they fetch. Good luck with your search.
Joined: 22 Feb 2007 Posts: 153 Location: Pennsylvania, USA
Posted: Sat Jun 21, 2008 7:58 am Post subject:
Jean, Dave--
Thanks for the information. Not that it's any surprise, plenty of bikes I know nothing about, but for some reason I had missed this in Norton's development. Seems to have an almost Dominator-type tank. A clean looking design, too. I'm not really in the market for one, the Commando and the Ducati GT750 ('74) are taking all the extra time and cash at the moment But if one of you guys/gals have one to give away, please advise.... maybe hewho has a spare one in his multi-floored warehouse?
Joined: 19 Oct 2005 Posts: 309 Location: Hong Kong
Posted: Sat Jun 21, 2008 5:25 pm Post subject:
Wrench,
If you have a hankering for an earlier model Norton twin, consider a featherbed framed 88 (500cc) or a 99 (600cc) from the mid 50s. I personally think that they are more aesthetically pleasing than the later models with panels and trim bolted to the tank. They are not as fast as the later 650 and 750 models and hence don't seem to cost as much, but you already have arguably the fastest Norton twin with your Commando, so something different for pottering around could be a worthwhile addition to the stable.
Posted: Sat Jun 21, 2008 6:51 pm Post subject: Speeding is a nono now
I agree, speeding I think is a thing of the past, can't do it like we used to years ago. There are police everywhere and too many idiots driving cars and SUVs they can't handle. A smaller capacity Norton makes perfect sense and keeping one in running order is like having your own museum piece.
Joined: 22 Feb 2007 Posts: 153 Location: Pennsylvania, USA
Posted: Sun Jun 22, 2008 8:34 am Post subject:
Good advice guys. Those are some gorgeous bikes. I'd imagine fetching one at a 'reasonable' cost is probably out of the question? The 99 has always held my eye. Definitely something to consider.
Joined: 07 Oct 2005 Posts: 143 Location: Anacortes, WA, USA
Posted: Thu Jun 26, 2008 8:47 pm Post subject:
When I was commuting between my home in Kenilworth and the Marston Road factory, my "company hack" was a 650 SS. In many respects, I thought it was a better bike than the early Commando.
The only problems I had were a blown head gasket and a massive leak from the fitting that bolted to the crankcase and contained the oil feed and return pipes.
That particular failure resuted in a seized engine, as I cruised at about 85 mph along the M6 southbound on the way to work after a weekend at the family home in Leyland. Had to hitch-hike to Wolverhampton, then take the company van back to get the dead bike.
I think the hulk was still un-repaired a year later when the firm went bust.
We did a trial with a single carb on that bike, to see if there was better low-end torque for towing a sidecar. After the twin-Amals were replaced, the slides got swapped side to side. I had an interesting few seconds when the throttles stuck wide open just after I tucked in behind a bus in city traffic. I was glad of the magneto kill button right next to the throttle twist-grip!
Joined: 19 Oct 2005 Posts: 309 Location: Hong Kong
Posted: Fri Jun 27, 2008 5:49 pm Post subject:
I knew Frank would have an anecdote and some observations for us. Any comments on the rideability of the 88 and 99 models, Frank? The mid-fifties ones are so beautiful to look at and don't seem to command the same prices as the much-sought after 650SS.
Joined: 22 Dec 2006 Posts: 168 Location: Langley, B.C.
Posted: Fri Jul 04, 2008 7:37 pm Post subject:
Looks like I bought the 650 SS. It was built late in 68, very near the end of production for ss bikes. It's a very sharp looking machine. The Fenders are not the deeply valenced ones found on earlier bikes, these look very similar to my Commando fenders.
Joined: 15 Jan 2008 Posts: 531 Location: Laredo (south) Texas
Posted: Sat Jul 05, 2008 5:58 am Post subject:
What theat bike is selling at that price is the Featherbed frame.
Nice and clean, to be sure. Probably worth the money to the right buyer, of which I am sure there will be one before long.
If I remember right, that Bradsbikes page seems to have lots of cross listings from other websites. Not e-bay, but other websites that have bikes for sale sections...
Joined: 07 Oct 2005 Posts: 143 Location: Anacortes, WA, USA
Posted: Sat Jul 05, 2008 7:48 pm Post subject:
Dave:
IMHO, the Dominator 99 was the best of the bunch. It had the best compromise between performance and comfort. The 650SS was pushing the vibration envelope just a bit. It was eclipsed, of course, by the Atlas. The 600 cc twin was about the upper limit for vibration. The Domi 88 was even smoother, but gave away quite a bit in overall performance. I always thought the silver metallic paint and the chrome on the tank sides made for a very elegant piece of machinery.
On the Atlas, your toes and fingers went numb from vibration after 100 miles and we reckoned the headlamp bulbs only lasted 6000 miles. It didn't matter whether or not you actually used the lights, the vibration used to shake the filament off the posts in the bulb, hot or cold!
Really, the main development effort on the Commando was trying to get rid of the Atlas's vibration. The structural designers did some interesting things with the frame, not all sweetness and light, but it was a lot stiffer in the twisting axis than the Featherbed, and it kept the front and rear wheels together better. I never tested for vertical stiffness, but torsionally it improved about 10-fold over the Featherbed. Admittedly, those measurements were done with the bare frame (as instructed by management), and if I'd compared them with an installed engine and transmission, maybe the Commando wouldn't have shown up as well. I'm sure the Featherbed frame got a fair bit of stiffness from the engine.
As I've said before, we didn't have a good enough front brake to show up the problems with spreading of the downtubes that you modifiers have subsequently uncovered with your high-efficiency disc brakes.
Joined: 19 Oct 2005 Posts: 309 Location: Hong Kong
Posted: Sun Jul 06, 2008 6:06 am Post subject:
Frank, My personal favourites from an aesthetic point of view is the mid 50s with painted/chromed tank and teardrop exhausts.
Many serious and succesfull classic racers swear that the featherbed is the more rigid and better handling frame when compare to the Commando. I like Commando handling, but I am willing to concede that the featherbeds I have ridden have a more solid 'planted' feel on the road. I suppose it goes to show that theory and reality do not always coincide, however as you rightly point out the main effort of the re-design was to tame the vibrations and I doubt that there will be any argument from anyone on this forum about the success of this exercise.
Joined: 22 Feb 2007 Posts: 153 Location: Pennsylvania, USA
Posted: Sun Jul 06, 2008 8:32 am Post subject:
Congrats on the SS purchase, worntorn. You have to be excited as hell. The bike previously referenced on www.bradsbikes.com sold not long after it was listed here.... wonder if a fellow member here bought it?
Nice reading about the testing and evolution of these bikes from those on the inside. A real treat and education.
I'll probably be kicking myself about not having the spare $$$ to buy one myself --but have to admit, the advice of checking out the Dominator 99 instead is well placed.
I imagine with the strong UK £ over the U.S.D, a lot of these lovely machines will be crated and heading back to their birth-place.
You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot vote in polls in this forum
At the end of 1967 the Norton Commando was announced.
The Norton Commando was greeted with a certain amount of scepticism because on first sight the commando appeared to comprise of the old Norton Dominator twin cylinder engine mounted at an inclined angle in a set of new cylinder parts.
It was not realized that the new Norton Commando Isolastic method of engine suspension damped out all engine vibration and produced a machine which had uncanny smoothness for a vertical twin. In due course the critics were silenced and the Norton Commando had the distinction of being regarded as the first of todays so called superbikes. There can be little doubt that the original design concept of the Norton Commando has proved correct, since comparatively few modifications of any real consequence have been made since production commenced during 1968.
Now nearly 40 years later Norton Commando riders like us are a breed of our own, and as far as we are concerned its still more fun to go for a blat on the old Norton Commando, and fast. As a Norton Commando owner and enthusiast, my goal here is to promote and give credit to those who keep the Norton name going.
It is more deserving to give credit to the Commando itself, for after all these years it continues to be respected. The original Commando designers like John Favill are those who deserve the credit for developing this incredible motorcycle.
The Norton Commando Roadster and Interstate of the late seventies, never died. Although the Norton Villiers factory dispersed the tradition lived on. Today Kenny Dreer in the USA is developing the new 952 CC Norton. What a great looking bike this is, and its engineering is still based on the original layout. It will be interesting to see how the new 952CC Norton does in todays tough motorcycle market. One thing is for sure, I would own one if I could afford it.
But if one of you guys/gals have one to give away, please advise.... maybe hewho has a spare one in his multi-floored warehouse?