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Yellow_Cad
Joined: 02 Apr 2008
Posts: 148
Location: Sacramento, CA
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 Posted: Thu Jul 03, 2008 6:28 pm Post subject: Seems like a 750 serial number on an 850 |
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| Why would an 850 Roadster with 4/74 on the plate have matching numbers (motor and frame) 235,XXX? Weren't the 200,000 numbers used for 750s? |
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Mr Bean
Joined: 11 Apr 2008
Posts: 9
Location: Tasmania
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| Posted: Fri Jul 04, 2008 4:42 am Post subject: |
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| 850's started in the 300,000 range. 750's finished in '73 sometime from memory. Is the motor an 850 or a 750? |
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L.A.B.
Moderator
Joined: 20 Nov 2004
Posts: 1842
Location: Norfolk, UK
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| Posted: Fri Jul 04, 2008 5:46 am Post subject: |
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As far as I know, all 850s had 300000-on serial numbers? And 235- being far outside of '73 750 production, the last known 750 being number 230935.
Just a long-shot, but is there any chance that this "850" is one of those 200 or so "750" 850s - the short stroke 750cc version of the 850?
Didn't they have one less fin on the barrels (8 instead of 9?)
That could explain the odd 235XXX number? |
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Yellow_Cad
Joined: 02 Apr 2008
Posts: 148
Location: Sacramento, CA
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| Posted: Fri Jul 04, 2008 8:42 am Post subject: |
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| Thanks L.A.B. I don't have it only looking at it. I will try to follow up on the fin count. If what you speculate is the case, is that version of Commando desireable or not? |
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kommando
Joined: 07 May 2005
Posts: 312
Location: Scotland
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| Posted: Fri Jul 04, 2008 8:51 am Post subject: |
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| Yes, very much so. But can't see it being fitted to a roadster as they were for racing and fitted to production racers, but after all these years who knows. |
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L.A.B.
Moderator
Joined: 20 Nov 2004
Posts: 1842
Location: Norfolk, UK
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| Posted: Fri Jul 04, 2008 9:05 am Post subject: |
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| kommando wrote: | | But can't see it being fitted to a roadster as they were for racing and fitted to production racers, but after all these years who knows. |
Yet, on the back cover of Roy Bacon's "Norton Twin Restoration" book is a photo of such a short-stroke Roadster!
The same photo and a caption reading "Short stroke 750, part of a small run for 1973" can be found in Steve Wilson's " Norton Motor Cycles" book. Maybe the production run carried over into 1974, or more were made?
But there's a good chance this will turn out to be another one of those unsolved Norton mysteries! |
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Yellow_Cad
Joined: 02 Apr 2008
Posts: 148
Location: Sacramento, CA
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| Posted: Fri Jul 04, 2008 10:06 am Post subject: |
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| It has nine fins when counted at the back side of the jug. Also, the number cast into the jug is 063850. Any other thoughts? |
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L.A.B.
Moderator
Joined: 20 Nov 2004
Posts: 1842
Location: Norfolk, UK
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| Posted: Fri Jul 04, 2008 10:10 am Post subject: |
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| Yellow_Cad wrote: | | It has nine fins when counted at the back side of the jug. Also, the number cast into the jug is 063850. Any other thoughts? |
-Back to the unsolved mystery theory then! |
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79x100
Joined: 19 May 2006
Posts: 688
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| Posted: Fri Jul 04, 2008 11:20 am Post subject: |
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I think that the only way that we might be able to take this further would be with photos of the ID plate and the motor number. Is the plate fitted with the hammer-drive screws ?
The suspicion has to be that someone has put a 750 Identity onto an 850 but slipped up by retaining the 850 build date. Maybe he had the title to a 750 or perhaps the insurance was cheaper.
Assuming that it's not a complete Bitsa, other clues to look at are large sump filter ? Breather on rear of timing chest ? Fork yokes marked 'ANG' underneath ? Is gearbox number the same ? Does swing arm have the reinforcing gussets on the cross-tube ?
Nothing here will give a definitive answer. |
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Yellow_Cad
Joined: 02 Apr 2008
Posts: 148
Location: Sacramento, CA
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| Posted: Fri Jul 04, 2008 1:01 pm Post subject: |
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| I can understand your thoughts but this bike has not been around very much. It has 9,000 plus miles on it and the guy selling it is the second owner and had it for twenty something years. He has all the original dealer info and all the numbers check out. From what I can remember, it didn't leave the dealership until 1977. In its life it has had a blown head gasket (repaired but causing it to sit for ten years idle), electronic ignition added, black box changed for a straight filter, and black tip mufflers replaced by Dunstall type. |
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79x100
Joined: 19 May 2006
Posts: 688
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| Posted: Fri Jul 04, 2008 1:55 pm Post subject: |
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The longer you've owned a bike, the more chance there is to change things 
Does the headstock have a stamped F1xxxxx type number ? For early 1974, I think it should have.
It seems inconceivable to me that even in Norton's chaotic state someone could have stamped so wrong a number. 325xxx or 335xxx for instance would be far too late which means at least two digits would have to be wrong on all components.
The surviving factory records are not complete but there are generally enough clues to follow what was going on. In my opinion there is something not quite right here.
Has anyone in the U.S. ever tried to track down any surviving import records ?
I would be fascinated to know what the gearbox number is. Are all the crossed circle stamps present ? |
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Yellow_Cad
Joined: 02 Apr 2008
Posts: 148
Location: Sacramento, CA
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| Posted: Fri Jul 04, 2008 2:13 pm Post subject: |
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| The cross circle stamps by the engine serial number are there but I am not sure how many there should be. |
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79x100
Joined: 19 May 2006
Posts: 688
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| Posted: Fri Jul 04, 2008 2:21 pm Post subject: |
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Just one before and one after - That's 850 practice, isn't it ? My '72 750 doesn't have them.
Curiouser and curiouser ! |
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Yellow_Cad
Joined: 02 Apr 2008
Posts: 148
Location: Sacramento, CA
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| Posted: Fri Jul 04, 2008 4:36 pm Post subject: |
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| From my memory (I just saw the bike a few hours ago), these circles were at least in front of and just after the serial number. |
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Yellow_Cad
Joined: 02 Apr 2008
Posts: 148
Location: Sacramento, CA
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| Posted: Fri Jul 04, 2008 5:31 pm Post subject: |
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| Any thoughts on whether or not the things that I described about this bike including the month and year of manufacture make it a good or not so good Commando to have. It is a fairly neglected (carport with cover so lots of surface rust on chrome and sat with gas in it for 10 years and won't run so I can't hear it run) virgin bike so it will require a lot of clean up so that is expected but don't want to many inherent issues to deal with such as soft cams, some negative based on the strange serial number, etc. |
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Norton Commando Forum by Corporate Pages Web hosting using phpbb
The Unapproachable Norton Commando
At the end of 1967 the Norton Commando was announced.
The Norton Commando was greeted with a certain amount of scepticism because on first sight the commando appeared to comprise of the old Norton Dominator twin cylinder engine mounted at an inclined angle in a set of new cylinder parts.
It was not realized that the new Norton Commando Isolastic method of engine suspension damped out all engine vibration and produced a machine which had uncanny smoothness for a vertical twin. In due course the critics were silenced and the Norton Commando had the distinction of being regarded as the first of todays so called superbikes. There can be little doubt that the original design concept of the Norton Commando has proved correct, since comparatively few modifications of any real consequence have been made since production commenced during 1968.
Now nearly 40 years later Norton Commando riders like us are a breed of our own, and as far as we are concerned its still more fun to go for a blat on the old Norton Commando, and fast. As a Norton Commando owner and enthusiast, my goal here is to promote and give credit to those who keep the Norton name going.
It is more deserving to give credit to the Commando itself, for after all these years it continues to be respected. The original Commando designers like John Favill are those who deserve the credit for developing this incredible motorcycle.
The Norton Commando Roadster and Interstate of the late seventies, never died. Although the Norton Villiers factory dispersed the tradition lived on. Today Kenny Dreer in the USA is developing the new 952 CC Norton. What a great looking bike this is, and its engineering is still based on the original layout. It will be interesting to see how the new 952CC Norton does in todays tough motorcycle market. One thing is for sure, I would own one if I could afford it.
