Joined: 04 Nov 2007 Posts: 31 Location: France-St malo
Posted: Sun May 25, 2008 9:42 am Post subject: Boyer black box problems.
Yesterday I had fit a boyer to my friend 's Commando, and no sparks ....
(all the wiring was newly redone with all grounds back to the battery , new coils etc.plus it was at least the 20 th I had fitted without probs), so no hesitation, I go to the trouble shooting guide , follow the steps and found the black box with no sparks when touching the two wires comming from the stator (after unplugging them and touching the black box side ones ), so I jump to my shed , put a new one , OK it works , do the timing , synch the carbies and so and so , the day after same trouble, checking all the parts , no sparks , borrow the twin boyer coil on my Cdo ,..........black box out of service. Could it be two faulty box , or should I look for another track.........any help will be sincerly wellcome , that could be expensive at the end , though I will send them to Boyer for checking and may be warranty.
Joined: 04 Nov 2007 Posts: 31 Location: France-St malo
Posted: Sun May 25, 2008 12:55 pm Post subject:
Hi there, yes the battery showes 12,4 V, and the voltage between white and red at the black box was the same.In fact , I follow exactly the trouble shooting till the test of the trigger : touching both wire et the black box side from stator assuming to get any sparks, but no sparks and that was the second new boyer in two days , starnge , because i never had problem with the previous Boyer (at least twenty) I had installed .....
I just fitted a new boyer to a B44, it worked but because they have added a cutoff so it doesn't fire until it gets 200rpm the first touch of the wires produced no spark but the 2nd and subsequent touches did if done fast enough.
My Boyer was hopelessly dead. Pull your hair out dead.
I moved the ground wire coming out of the boyer box from the frame grounding and plugged it into a red wire in the generous wad of under-tank harness and instantly solved everything!
The original frame mount was checking out with a volt meter and had been used for years with no problem.
Joined: 20 Nov 2004 Posts: 1689 Location: Norfolk UK
Posted: Sat May 31, 2008 6:44 am Post subject:
marinatlas wrote:
Should we put a ground wire to the engine and thus consequently put the body of the coils at ground?
If, by "body of the coils" you mean the coil cases? Then no, they do not need to be grounded, in fact if you can detect current between the coil cases and ground then the coils are faulty?
Joined: 04 Nov 2007 Posts: 31 Location: France-St malo
Posted: Sun Jun 01, 2008 6:28 am Post subject:
Hi , I have been , on the bike , the red wire go to the head, I had test with my own dual boyer plug ( to cancel any bad coils posibility),check the resistor plug cap (10 ohms ), NGK ones, they are OK too, new plugs, still no sparks!!!!!!!!
5kOhms caps are normally recommended by Boyer with copper spark leads/wires, but the MkIII analogue Boyer does not require RFI resistor caps or R plugs to be fitted. The Boyer Micro Digital and Micro Power ignitions must be used with 5 kOhm resistors.
Joined: 04 Nov 2007 Posts: 31 Location: France-St malo
Posted: Sun Jun 01, 2008 8:51 am Post subject:
Yes they are LB 10 (10 K.;Ohms), that's only what they had at my local japy dealer, plus I should admit cars plug wire (new but resistive at 2 K .Ohm), but when I test an hour ago it was with my own coil (boyer non resistive wire, fitted on their dual plug single coil). As soon as I can get spare black box , I will try with alternator unplugged and thus the podtronic , will have no influence too (all the charging system will be out).
But I had before to send the three black box to Boyer (one is one month old , two are a week old...)However thank you everybody for your collaboration , and patience .
Joined: 04 Nov 2007 Posts: 31 Location: France-St malo
Posted: Wed Jun 18, 2008 4:19 am Post subject:
Got Boyer on phone...the three boxees were shot; in order to find out the root causes they dismantled the boxes (or tested), and found that at least two were destroyed due to excessive HT current , this could be caused either by an erratic /bad ground of the engine (or return to the red wire), or excessive impedance/resistance of the HT leads/caps ( I run 10K ohms caps and 5 K ohms wires), so they will replace for free one box and the two other are for me (and I was fitting this Boyer to a friend's Cdo , for free/fun, so no more fun and for my pocket two boxes, cause I can't ask money to this guy , that won't be fair.......!).Hope it will work, after checking the return current from engine to battery with a bulb (it has been said it's better , cause it will put some load on it , and better than with a multimeter) , and then put copper wire with zero ohms resistance, as the plug's caps.
Joined: 04 Nov 2007 Posts: 31 Location: France-St malo
Posted: Sun Jun 29, 2008 10:44 am Post subject:
It's OK the Cdo runs , we have checked all the wiring (especially the return of ground from the engine, which was the suspect culprit) before to make sure , change the caps and wires .....but the engines stalled after few blips , check the new rubbish pet cock (half obstructed by the inside rubber) , change them , but one cylinder stay cool , should be the air jet obstructed too...no more time today, have to come back home, but my friends feels better (two years and half since the first beginning of buying spares, and his first british bike).
Joined: 25 Jun 2008 Posts: 12 Location: washington dc USA
Posted: Sun Jul 06, 2008 5:19 pm Post subject:
I am jumping in to this because i see mtop have the ssame problem How do i know if the boyer module is good? the regulator? etc , If the Boyer is no good, should i replace itwith the same or is there something better. anks in advance
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At the end of 1967 the Norton Commando was announced.
The Norton Commando was greeted with a certain amount of scepticism because on first sight the commando appeared to comprise of the old Norton Dominator twin cylinder engine mounted at an inclined angle in a set of new cylinder parts.
It was not realized that the new Norton Commando Isolastic method of engine suspension damped out all engine vibration and produced a machine which had uncanny smoothness for a vertical twin. In due course the critics were silenced and the Norton Commando had the distinction of being regarded as the first of todays so called superbikes. There can be little doubt that the original design concept of the Norton Commando has proved correct, since comparatively few modifications of any real consequence have been made since production commenced during 1968.
Now nearly 40 years later Norton Commando riders like us are a breed of our own, and as far as we are concerned its still more fun to go for a blat on the old Norton Commando, and fast. As a Norton Commando owner and enthusiast, my goal here is to promote and give credit to those who keep the Norton name going.
It is more deserving to give credit to the Commando itself, for after all these years it continues to be respected. The original Commando designers like John Favill are those who deserve the credit for developing this incredible motorcycle.
The Norton Commando Roadster and Interstate of the late seventies, never died. Although the Norton Villiers factory dispersed the tradition lived on. Today Kenny Dreer in the USA is developing the new 952 CC Norton. What a great looking bike this is, and its engineering is still based on the original layout. It will be interesting to see how the new 952CC Norton does in todays tough motorcycle market. One thing is for sure, I would own one if I could afford it.
