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sglide77hd
Joined: 10 Feb 2008
Posts: 6
Location: Attica, Kansas
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 Posted: Sun Feb 24, 2008 1:46 pm Post subject: Frame Number |
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I have a question I need answered. My frame # looks like this
1 8
--9
--5
--1
--2
--8
Can anyone tell me what the #1 in front of the #8 means? |
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L.A.B.
Moderator
Joined: 20 Nov 2004
Posts: 1850
Location: Norfolk, UK
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| Posted: Sun Feb 24, 2008 2:38 pm Post subject: Re: Frame Number |
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| sglide77hd wrote: | | Can anyone tell me what the #1 in front of the #8 means? |
OK
But read it like this:
18
9
5
1
2
8
The '18' is NOT part of the serial number, it is the model code number, 18 is the code for a 650 model, 20 would be an Atlas model. Only 95128 is the frame number. |
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sglide77hd
Joined: 10 Feb 2008
Posts: 6
Location: Attica, Kansas
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| Posted: Sun Feb 24, 2008 3:35 pm Post subject: Frame Number |
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| Ok then. I understand that. But then answer me this question. The motor that came with the frame is # 104558, and on the left rear side of the case it says 750 and under that is says 530. Now what would that mean? That it is a 650 frame with a 750 motor? If so then what does that make my bike? The Motor # says that it is a 63. And the frame # says that it is a 61? Is it a crossbreed of 2 motorcycles? Really confused now. |
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L.A.B.
Moderator
Joined: 20 Nov 2004
Posts: 1850
Location: Norfolk, UK
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| Posted: Sun Feb 24, 2008 3:45 pm Post subject: Re: Frame Number |
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| sglide77hd wrote: | | Is it a crossbreed of 2 motorcycles? |
Yes. You do seem to have a 650 frame, and the engine as you say is probably from a 750 Atlas. The engine and frame numbers would have matched when the motorcycle left the factory. |
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sglide77hd
Joined: 10 Feb 2008
Posts: 6
Location: Attica, Kansas
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| Posted: Sun Feb 24, 2008 4:04 pm Post subject: Frame Number |
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| Wonderful, Thanks for your help. So would it be worth my trouble to put the motor together with the frame? Because finding the frame to match the engine would be improbable, if not impossible (or vice-versa). Thought I had a good thing going here. I am only out $200.00 for the basketcase,(the cost of a Top end, Front end, and exhaust which I didn't get with it, and haven't gotten yet). Opinions welcome. |
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L.A.B.
Moderator
Joined: 20 Nov 2004
Posts: 1850
Location: Norfolk, UK
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| Posted: Sun Feb 24, 2008 4:12 pm Post subject: |
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There's no technical reason why you shouldn't build it up as it is, if you intend to ride it? I don't know what the legal situation of doing that would be where you live?
If you intended it to be a 'show' bike then of course never will be quite correct. |
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sglide77hd
Joined: 10 Feb 2008
Posts: 6
Location: Attica, Kansas
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| Posted: Sun Feb 24, 2008 4:50 pm Post subject: Frame Number |
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| I did not get a title with it, and I can file for a lost title for it. There is just one lingering question when I do get it titled, What year to make it. A 61 or a 63. What they do here in Kansas is, the Highway Patrol will run the #'s to find out if it is stolen. Already had the motor # run and it came back clean. Just found the Frame # today, So I'd imagine (hopefully) the frame will come back clean also. I bought it from someone who got it an auction. Now what would that make the bike? A ____ -Atlas? And also is it a 6-volt or a 12-volt? |
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L.A.B.
Moderator
Joined: 20 Nov 2004
Posts: 1850
Location: Norfolk, UK
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| Posted: Mon Feb 25, 2008 11:29 am Post subject: Re: Frame Number |
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| sglide77hd wrote: | | Now what would that make the bike? A ____ -Atlas? |
Yes that's a bit difficult to answer!
| sglide77hd wrote: | | And also is it a 6-volt or a 12-volt? |
Very likely 6 Volt originally, for the '61. The Atlas I think used 12V from 1964?
Both 650 and 750 would probably have had magneto ignition and alternator charging system, but as your bike is a bit of an unknown quantity who knows what surprises you will find? And I would suggest that you consider upgrading to 12V anyway? |
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sglide77hd
Joined: 10 Feb 2008
Posts: 6
Location: Attica, Kansas
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| Posted: Tue Feb 26, 2008 12:13 am Post subject: Frame Number |
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On the rear of the motor, on top that runs off the rear of the 2 timing chains on the right side there is something that looks like an alternator, I know it's not an alternator because when you take off the end cap there is only 1 point.
Not knowing much about Nortons yet, does that mean that this is a single fire to both plugs, or do both cylinders fire at different times? And if they do where is the other point? I am thinking (but probably wrong) since both pistons will come up at the same time that they both fire at the same time. Jesus this is giving me a headache. L.A.B. I appreciate all your information so far. |
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L.A.B.
Moderator
Joined: 20 Nov 2004
Posts: 1850
Location: Norfolk, UK
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| Posted: Tue Feb 26, 2008 11:31 am Post subject: Re: Frame Number |
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| sglide77hd wrote: | | On the rear of the motor, on top that runs off the rear of the 2 timing chains on the right side there is something that looks like an alternator, I know it's not an alternator because when you take off the end cap there is only 1 point. |
Does it look like this (first photo)? : http://www.hawkerelectrical.co.uk/pages/motorcycle_magnetos.htm
| sglide77hd wrote: | Not knowing much about Nortons yet, does that mean that this is a single fire to both plugs, or do both cylinders fire at different times? And if they do where is the other point?
I am thinking (but probably wrong) since both pistons will come up at the same time that they both fire at the same time |
Different times, but there's no second points set with a twin cylinder magneto. In a '360 degree crank' four stroke twin engine as many British four stroke twins are, both pistons rise and fall together, but only one piston will be on the compression stroke, the other will be on the exhaust stroke, so only one cylinder will require a spark for each engine revolution.
Some electronic coil ignition systems however, do supply sparks to both plugs every engine revolution (because it is a easier to do that using electronics) and many four cylinder bike use a double coil wasted spark system to fire all four cylinders.
But that's getting off the subject anyway, so back to the magneto, which has no battery supply, as it generates its own power and works totally independent of the motorcycle's (battery) electrical system. If you spin the magneto armature you should get sparks if you are lucky? If it only gives a weak spark, or no spark at all, then it may need to be reconditioned and rewound as they don't always go on forever. |
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sglide77hd
Joined: 10 Feb 2008
Posts: 6
Location: Attica, Kansas
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| Posted: Wed Feb 27, 2008 11:56 pm Post subject: Frame Number |
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Yes, it kind of looks like the first one. So it is a magneto. Ok, Next couple of questions....So would that mean that it is a 6-volt or a 12-volt system?
The magneto doesn't need to be hooked up to the electrical system in order for the plugs to fire because it generates it's own spark? Never had a motorcycle with a magneto before. Not really sure how the system works. L.A.B. I am gonna get a little smarter with your help. You are more help than anyone else has been, and I really appreciate it more than you know. |
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L.A.B.
Moderator
Joined: 20 Nov 2004
Posts: 1850
Location: Norfolk, UK
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| Posted: Thu Feb 28, 2008 1:40 pm Post subject: Re: Frame Number |
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| sglide77hd wrote: | | So would that mean that it is a 6-volt or a 12-volt system? |
The original electrical system would very likely have been 6 Volt, but anything could have been changed by previous owners, as it isn't difficult to modify the 6V system to 12V, which is normally considered to be a useful upgrade you might consider doing if it hasn't been done already?
| sglide77hd wrote: | | Never had a motorcycle with a magneto before. Not really sure how the system works. |
Here's some Lucas magneto information that may help you understand a little better (Section L5A): http://www.bolsover.com/lucas/index.htm |
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dave M
Joined: 19 Oct 2005
Posts: 309
Location: Hong Kong
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| Posted: Fri Feb 29, 2008 5:28 pm Post subject: |
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Not wishing to muscle in on L.A.B.'s excellent advise here. On a slightly different note, the frame and engine combination that you have here may not be matching numbers, but you have a sound basis for a wonderful bike. I suggest an internet search for various Norton images might throw up various examples that you could base your bike on, You will not be affecting the originality, so you have the freedom to turn it into a standard road bike , cafe racer, AMA classic racer or any of a number of other iterations. Many of us Norton enthusiasts would be delighted to have this combination.
Good Luck and have fun.
Dave |
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L.A.B.
Moderator
Joined: 20 Nov 2004
Posts: 1850
Location: Norfolk, UK
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| Posted: Sat Mar 01, 2008 12:46 am Post subject: |
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| dave M wrote: | | Not wishing to muscle in on L.A.B.'s excellent advise here. |
Dave,
My pre-Commando Norton twin knowledge is rather limited, so I'm more than happy for anyone else to join in and offer advice. |
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Norton Commando Forum by Corporate Pages Web hosting using phpbb
The Unapproachable Norton Commando
At the end of 1967 the Norton Commando was announced.
The Norton Commando was greeted with a certain amount of scepticism because on first sight the commando appeared to comprise of the old Norton Dominator twin cylinder engine mounted at an inclined angle in a set of new cylinder parts.
It was not realized that the new Norton Commando Isolastic method of engine suspension damped out all engine vibration and produced a machine which had uncanny smoothness for a vertical twin. In due course the critics were silenced and the Norton Commando had the distinction of being regarded as the first of todays so called superbikes. There can be little doubt that the original design concept of the Norton Commando has proved correct, since comparatively few modifications of any real consequence have been made since production commenced during 1968.
Now nearly 40 years later Norton Commando riders like us are a breed of our own, and as far as we are concerned its still more fun to go for a blat on the old Norton Commando, and fast. As a Norton Commando owner and enthusiast, my goal here is to promote and give credit to those who keep the Norton name going.
It is more deserving to give credit to the Commando itself, for after all these years it continues to be respected. The original Commando designers like John Favill are those who deserve the credit for developing this incredible motorcycle.
The Norton Commando Roadster and Interstate of the late seventies, never died. Although the Norton Villiers factory dispersed the tradition lived on. Today Kenny Dreer in the USA is developing the new 952 CC Norton. What a great looking bike this is, and its engineering is still based on the original layout. It will be interesting to see how the new 952CC Norton does in todays tough motorcycle market. One thing is for sure, I would own one if I could afford it.
