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debby
Joined: 15 Apr 2004
Posts: 898
Location: Boulder, CO
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 Posted: Wed Aug 25, 2004 11:14 am Post subject: |
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I haven't had time to do anything with the bike this week but I just scored some autolite ap64 plugs from my local napa car parts place. Will try them out tonight and see what happens. I'm hoping they'll keep the thing running long enough to let me figure out what the real problem is.
The autolites were actually $1 cheaper per plug than what the mc shops charge me for generic NGK plugs! I wonder if they'll give me a discount if I buy like 100 of them? I could save even more money. The more you spend the more you save.
Perhaps the next thing I should do is set the float levels. They're a bit high (rich) from what people told me on that other thread. Perhaps that's enough to push things over the edge into perpetual-plug-fouling-mode.
Debby |
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Jason Curtiss
Joined: 14 Jun 2003
Posts: 667
Location: HOUSTON, TEXAS
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| Posted: Wed Aug 25, 2004 1:29 pm Post subject: |
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Debby,
Be careful. I suspect those Autolite plugs are hotter than the standard Champion plugs; so don't do any high speed riding with them.
And yes, the float level you reported in an earlier discussion did seem way high to me. As mentioined previously, with the bowl updside down the float should be about level with the edge of the bowl. Anything lower than this will certainly contribute to an overly rich condition at idle.
However, this overly-rich theory flies in the face of your need to tickle the carbs to restart the bike.
Regards,
Jason |
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norbsa48503
Joined: 07 Apr 2004
Posts: 1035
Location: Flint, Michigan
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| Posted: Wed Aug 25, 2004 4:26 pm Post subject: |
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| Jason, AP64's are not that hot they are direct replacements for Bosch WRP7's that I have run for years. CNW come with AP63's one step cooler. But I just did a trip to Ohio and back 250 miles each way at 80MPH straight thru with AP64's and many hard runs since than up to 6500 RPM don't you think I should blow up. Yes they burn white like they should but deep down inside were the ceramic touches the metal core there is a ring of color about .025 thick after my hardest run so I am not scared. The main thing is when I slow way down and tuol around the camp ground at five MPH I can still start the bike even if the plugs get black. I don't like the fact that they have no nickel plate on them main thing is there foul resistent.norbsa |
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debby
Joined: 15 Apr 2004
Posts: 898
Location: Boulder, CO
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| Posted: Thu Aug 26, 2004 7:02 am Post subject: |
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I put the autolites in last night and tried them out. They got the bike running but just barely. When it started it was only running on one cylinder. I kept it running by keeping it revved above 2000 and eventually the other cylinder joined in. It settled down to a nice smooth 1000 rpm idle but seemed to be missing and cutting out above idle. It was dark and my taillight has quit working so the only test ride I did was one pass up the alley. Couldn't really tell anything from that.
I'm thinking there's something else wrong besides carb settings. Sometimes the bike runs great, other times it doesn't run at all or very poorly. Maybe there's some random electrical fault. Or maybe I have contaminated fuel. The last time it ran well was when I put fresh gas in a couple of weeks ago. Then when it sat for a week it didn't want to run. Maybe the lining I had professionally installed in the tank is dissolving and spoiling the fuel??? Just a thought. But I'd think if it was just messed-up carbys it would run bad all the time. Or could bad condensers cause these sort of symptoms? I hate to troubleshoot it by replacing one expensive part after another ("nope, that didn't fix it") but condensers are relatively cheap. Another thought I had is running a jumper wire directly from the battery to the coils to rule out possible wiring problems...
Debby |
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norbsa48503
Joined: 07 Apr 2004
Posts: 1035
Location: Flint, Michigan
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| Posted: Thu Aug 26, 2004 7:36 am Post subject: |
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| Debby, Bad condensers would put excess sparks at the points and then pit them on even a short ride. Pull the point cover and with your fingers check that the AA unit is smooth and free you may have to bump the motor with the bike in fourth gear to get all the pressure off the cam of the AA unit to see that it is realy free. If your condensers are bad you will see burnt points. Sure sounds like Old wireing. norbsa |
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Jason Curtiss
Joined: 14 Jun 2003
Posts: 667
Location: HOUSTON, TEXAS
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| Posted: Thu Aug 26, 2004 12:11 pm Post subject: |
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Debby,
Condensers are cheap!
Faulty condensers will cause the engine to run erratic with symptoms of a carburetor being out of adjustment. I think I remember asking if you had changed them?
As norbsa pointed out, faulty condensers will cause excessive spark at the points. This is easy to check: with the ignition on, flick the points open and closed by hand and if you see a big-fat-spark at the points, you have a bad condenser. Moreover, you will see stalagmites/stalagtites on the faces of the points if your condensers are shot.
Check it out and let us know what you find.
Regards,
Jason |
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Dwardo
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| Posted: Sat Aug 28, 2004 8:10 am Post subject: Condensers |
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| Recently I was working on a Yamaha 650 that had been sitting several years. It wouldn't really run at all and the spark didn't look too good. I replaced the condensers and voila! it ran. Otherwise I just cleaned the carbs and adjusted the timing chain and points and it runs quite well. Like somebody else said, condensers are cheap. |
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debby
Joined: 15 Apr 2004
Posts: 898
Location: Boulder, CO
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| Posted: Sat Aug 28, 2004 5:15 pm Post subject: |
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I spent a few hours working on it last night and found the problem! It turned out it was only running on the left cylinder. The right side wasn't even firing. The points were dirty and corroded and a little work with the volt meter showed the ones for the right cylinder were so bad they weren't conducting at all. The voltage drop across the points was exactly the same regardless of whether they were open or closed! So it was like the points were open all the time. I was able to clean them up a bit and get the bike to run on both cylinders but today I went down to Denver and bought new points and condensers. Also one of the wires had broken and was soldered back on in a very non-workmanlike manner. It was still working but its failure was just a matter of time. So I bought new points leads also.
Now I just have to put the new parts in and retime the engine. I feel confident in predicting it will run much better!
I know, I should have checked the points more carefully a long time ago. I feel a little embarassed about that actually. But with all the carb problems I've had I thought it was The Curse of the Amals again. This bike has just had a lot of little mechanical issues that all have to be sorted out and made right. Hopefully I'm getting closer now...
Debby |
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norbsa48503
Joined: 07 Apr 2004
Posts: 1035
Location: Flint, Michigan
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| Posted: Sun Aug 29, 2004 4:33 am Post subject: |
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| Debby, Not being able to find real Lucas points is the problem that has sent many to hook up Boyers. The copies can require many re-gaps before holding still. The plastic wear shoes don't seem to last as long as the lucas brand. I have a man here in Michigan with an old stock Lucus but the last time we talked he needed 30.00 per set now you see why a Boyer and 110.00 gets to sounding better. norbsa |
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debby
Joined: 15 Apr 2004
Posts: 898
Location: Boulder, CO
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| Posted: Sun Aug 29, 2004 8:56 am Post subject: |
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uh oh. well, we'll see how it goes. I purchased genuine Lucas condensers (all he had) but jap points (also all he had). I'm a bit reluctant to go with a Boyer due to all the problems I hear about - breaking wires, black boxes that go out, and sometimes they seem to have a vicious kickback. One guy on INOA recently got his ankle broken from his Boyer-equipped bike kicking back! I need my ankles for other things so I'd really prefer to stick with the points unless they prove to be *really* troublesome.
Debby |
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Jason Curtiss
Joined: 14 Jun 2003
Posts: 667
Location: HOUSTON, TEXAS
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| Posted: Sun Aug 29, 2004 12:13 pm Post subject: |
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Hi Debbie,
It sounds like your making progress!
I think someone once said that 90% of all carburetor problems are electrical!
What is HTH?
Jason |
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debby
Joined: 15 Apr 2004
Posts: 898
Location: Boulder, CO
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| Posted: Sun Aug 29, 2004 2:01 pm Post subject: |
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Interesting quote. I definitely fixed some real carb problems but this latest one did indeed turn out to be electrical. The more I learn the more I realize I don't know!
Jason, HTH is geek speak for Hope That Helps
Debby
geekette |
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Jason Curtiss
Joined: 14 Jun 2003
Posts: 667
Location: HOUSTON, TEXAS
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| Posted: Sun Aug 29, 2004 4:21 pm Post subject: |
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Debbie,
Thanks for the translation on HTH. Perhaps posting a list of these abreviations would be helpful?
Interestingly, the 90% rule sometimes works the other way around. For example: "...90% of all electrical problems can be traced to faulty carburetion."
Jason |
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nortonfan
Joined: 24 Dec 2003
Posts: 362
Location: Brisbane, Australia
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| Posted: Sun Aug 29, 2004 11:41 pm Post subject: |
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Well done Debby !!
You had to win in the end.
Remember, Compression, Spark(at the right time), Fuel & it should run.
I bet you are kicking yourself for not making sure the points were right when you first brought the bike. You should have replaced/checked them on the first days maintenance when you cleaned your carbys etc.
Boyer ignition is bad you say ?????????????????????
mmmmph, set it & forget it.
Well alls well that ends well they say. Congratulations once more. |
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Norton Commando Forum by Corporate Pages Web hosting using phpbb
The Unapproachable Norton Commando
At the end of 1967 the Norton Commando was announced.
The Norton Commando was greeted with a certain amount of scepticism because on first sight the commando appeared to comprise of the old Norton Dominator twin cylinder engine mounted at an inclined angle in a set of new cylinder parts.
It was not realized that the new Norton Commando Isolastic method of engine suspension damped out all engine vibration and produced a machine which had uncanny smoothness for a vertical twin. In due course the critics were silenced and the Norton Commando had the distinction of being regarded as the first of todays so called superbikes. There can be little doubt that the original design concept of the Norton Commando has proved correct, since comparatively few modifications of any real consequence have been made since production commenced during 1968.
Now nearly 40 years later Norton Commando riders like us are a breed of our own, and as far as we are concerned its still more fun to go for a blat on the old Norton Commando, and fast. As a Norton Commando owner and enthusiast, my goal here is to promote and give credit to those who keep the Norton name going.
It is more deserving to give credit to the Commando itself, for after all these years it continues to be respected. The original Commando designers like John Favill are those who deserve the credit for developing this incredible motorcycle.
The Norton Commando Roadster and Interstate of the late seventies, never died. Although the Norton Villiers factory dispersed the tradition lived on. Today Kenny Dreer in the USA is developing the new 952 CC Norton. What a great looking bike this is, and its engineering is still based on the original layout. It will be interesting to see how the new 952CC Norton does in todays tough motorcycle market. One thing is for sure, I would own one if I could afford it.
