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Politics and motorcycling

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Politics and motorcycling

Postby acotrel » Thu Mar 30, 2017 2:10 pm

I was reading a topic, now closed - about guys on this forum discussing politics and getting kicked off for it. Sadly we are all subject to politics and people who want to make a dollar from everything they touch. I started a motorcycle club in our town when I first came here and found that most of the kids wanted it to be concentrated around motocross. We borrowed $30,000 from the local car club and built a circuit on their land. We then ran a very successful round of the Australian MX championship. There was a lady from the controlling body who officiated, then submitted a bill for $600 for the use of her lap-top computer. So a dispute erupted. Then we were painted as a pack of bastards. So no more championships. We hold practice meetings regularly, but found we were being undercut by other clubs who were running black meetings uninsured, with the same officials who would normally appear at national meetings. Motorcycling is supposed to be fun, but the political shit has killed it for me.
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Re: Politics and motorcycling

Postby grandpaul » Thu Mar 30, 2017 4:19 pm

I saw the title and thought I might chime in, but the original post isn't about what I thought.

I have made it a point NOT to get into politics here; can't tell if it has helped any, but it hasn't hurt.

As far as politics and motorcycling go together, there are several very politically-connected aspects of motorcycling that need to be properly addressed and lobbied. These include retaining access to public lands, fair taxing, non-extraordinary registration and titling laws, motoring laws (lane splitting), helmet laws, insurance laws, etc., etc., etc.
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Re: Politics and motorcycling

Postby DonOR » Thu Mar 30, 2017 8:33 pm

grandpaul wrote:I saw the title and thought I might chime in, but the original post isn't about what I thought.

I have made it a point NOT to get into politics here; can't tell if it has helped any, but it hasn't hurt.

As far as politics and motorcycling go together, there are several very politically-connected aspects of motorcycling that need to be properly addressed and lobbied. These include retaining access to public lands, fair taxing, non-extraordinary registration and titling laws, motoring laws (lane splitting), helmet laws, insurance laws, etc., etc., etc.


Good point, Paul; OPs issues have more to due with an individual's greed ($600 in previously un-negotiated expenses.... wtf??? I've seen it all before--its a TRUMP thing! {thats a kinda joke}) than the political issues, most totally unrelated to motorcycling, discussed here in THE PUB; a place that has embraced the concept of free expression for centuries.
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Re: Politics and motorcycling

Postby Fast Eddie » Thu Mar 30, 2017 11:36 pm

acotrel wrote:I was reading a topic, now closed - about guys on this forum discussing politics and getting kicked off for it. Sadly we are all subject to politics and people who want to make a dollar from everything they touch. I started a motorcycle club in our town when I first came here and found that most of the kids wanted it to be concentrated around motocross. We borrowed $30,000 from the local car club and built a circuit on their land. We then ran a very successful round of the Australian MX championship. There was a lady from the controlling body who officiated, then submitted a bill for $600 for the use of her lap-top computer. So a dispute erupted. Then we were painted as a pack of bastards. So no more championships. We hold practice meetings regularly, but found we were being undercut by other clubs who were running black meetings uninsured, with the same officials who would normally appear at national meetings. Motorcycling is supposed to be fun, but the political shit has killed it for me.


People do not get kicked off of this site for discussing politics Alan!

They kicked off for failing to remain decent, and allowing themselves to get dragged into personal rants and insults.

I also stay out of political debates on forums these days ( I used to get sucked in but learned from that), why? It's pointless! I challenge anyone to find a political thread where someone has said "hey, you're right, I have been wrong all these years, you have made me change my political point of view"!!

No, on the contrary, debates quickly turn into plain old school yard style arguments with each side NOT listening AT ALL to the others viewpoint, instead they are only thinking about their next answer and how to score points.

And worst of all, good and real friendships have been destroyed by such debates. I am no psychologist but it's clear to me that the psychology of debating on the internet is very different to debating face to face with another human being. Something that can be debated in a healthy way face to face, often turns very ugly, very quickly on the Internet.

And people who do that repeatedly SHOULD be kicked off of the forum!
Last edited by Fast Eddie on Fri Mar 31, 2017 2:05 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Politics and motorcycling

Postby L.A.B. » Fri Mar 31, 2017 1:17 am

acotrel wrote:I was reading a topic, now closed - about guys on this forum discussing politics and getting kicked off for it.



Nobody has been kicked off the forum for discussing politics as far as I'm aware. :?
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Re: Politics and motorcycling

Postby Danno » Fri Mar 31, 2017 5:08 am

The problem is one of respect, not politics. Nobody respects divergent opinions and everyone thinks theirs are creedence. I think all sides of politics (like religion) have valid points and if everyone would just acknowledge that the other side is not totally ignorant, the bones of contention could be worked out. Unfortunately, most folks are so scared of being mistaken, they refuse to believe it even when it's obvious. Belief is not subject to scrutiny, because as a free people, we are supposed to be able to believe what we want, regardless of facts. No amount of truth can overcome blind devotion, only time can move that stake. Religion has always been 50 years behind science and now politics is 50 years behind truth because both are mired in belief.
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Re: Politics and motorcycling

Postby acotrel » Tue Apr 04, 2017 2:01 pm

One thing which really interests me is about classic road racing. The Brits seem to do it so much better than we do in Australia. You've mentioned BELIEF. Part of our mindset which I object to is 'this is as good as it gets'. I think one of our big problems is lack of imagination. Our race classes are never designed to encourage development, only to cater for what already exists. The result is that many historic racing bikes are cheaters, even if they fit 'the rules'.
It is probably the same with our federal politics, we seem to be stuck in a rut. The answers to our economic problems are always the same 'one size fits all'. Trump has offered an alternative which might be more expensive in the long term.
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Re: Politics and motorcycling

Postby Rohan » Tue Apr 04, 2017 10:52 pm

acotrel wrote:Our race classes are never designed to encourage development, only to cater for what already exists.


Mmmmm, this rules out folks throwing buckets of money at it and always winning, so keeping the playing field somewhat level. Good thing in my books - from a spectator's viewpoint.

I've seen Barry Sheene RIP and several other similarly mounted folks on Manxes and G50's going at it hammer and tongs. When they were all very similarly mounted, the racing was just heroic. NZ similarly runs fairly stock spec bike rules, and they seem to get big fields of classic race bikes, marvellous to see in action.

There is quite a deal of chat about 4 valve manxes appearing in UK races. On the dyno they should be clear winners - if you've spent the mega-cash to get them there - but they haven't quite found the magic touch to
make them actual winners - yet.

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Re: Politics and motorcycling

Postby Fast Eddie » Wed Apr 05, 2017 5:09 am

acotrel wrote: I think one of our big problems is lack of imagination. Our race classes are never designed to encourage development, only to cater for what already exists.


Isn't that because it is HISTORIC racing Alan...? Like, there's a clue in the name...!

There are many classes that cater for / encourage / require innovative imagination as you describe. But by definition, an antique bike cannot compete on an open field like this, with more modern (ergo innovative) base machine designs.

That's why the bikes became historic (it's basically a flattering alternative phrase to obsolete)!

And that's why classes were invented to allow these obsolete bikes to come out and play.

Having said all of that, there IS HUGE innovation in historic racing within (or mostly within) the rules. How much to allow and how much to ban is a constant issue. There has to be some allowed, it would be crazy to 'force' 60 year old tyre technology on riders for example. But there has to be limits, otherwise everyone would be riding 4 cylinder 16 valve turbo charged 'Manx Nortons' ...!

Just like in politics, I'm glad I don't have to draw, and then defend, these lines!
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Re: Politics and motorcycling

Postby acotrel » Wed Apr 05, 2017 11:57 am

There have been a few very successful race classes over the years. Sounds of Singles was excellent, however the absence of capacity classes killed it - you had to have the big motor to be competitive and 500cc is about the limit for reliability in single cylinder bikes, so the game became too expensive due to blow-ups. Battle of the Twins would have been better if it had been limited to bikes with air-cooled two valve motors up to 1000cc. The Lansdowne Series is excellent however not so many people can afford $80,000 modern Manx Nortons and G50s - might be better as an extension of Sounds of Singles - limit the class to bikes with two valve air-cooled motors and a 500cc upper capacity limit. There also needs to be a Junior class.
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Re: Politics and motorcycling

Postby acotrel » Wed Apr 05, 2017 12:04 pm

What could you do to a Manx Norton to make it better ? The obvious is make it water-cooled and four valve. It would then stick out like dog's balls. And the bottom end probably wouldn't cop it for long anyway.
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Re: Politics and motorcycling

Postby Rohan » Wed Apr 05, 2017 3:20 pm

These 4 valve manxs that are appearing are apparently hard to pick.
Not that I've even seen one in the metal


10,000 rpms eh ?
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Re: Politics and motorcycling

Postby acotrel » Thu Apr 13, 2017 3:31 pm

That is a very lovely photo. I can only dream about having a bike like that and I probably could not live with it anyway. When I was a kid I had friends who raced them and spent ever dollar they earned on them. With my wage back then, I could not have afforded to buy an exhaust valve each week. The problem with any of these old bikes is that you can only ride them as fast as the front brake will let you and the brakes never exceed the capability of the bike. In the olden days, an Oldani brake often appeared on winning Manxes.
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Re: Politics and motorcycling

Postby Rohan » Fri Apr 14, 2017 1:10 am

acotrel wrote:buy an exhaust valve each week. .


With 4 valves, being smaller and lighter, there should be less chance of things in the exhaust valve dept going awry.

Titanium valves also reduce the problem with stock 2 valvers, although the exhaust valve in any hard worked big banger race bike is always going to get a hard life.

P.S. The sodium cooled exhaust valves in Lycoming aero engines pan out at around $800 per valve,
and that was a fair while ago. That makes manx maintenance look economical....

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Re: Politics and motorcycling

Postby acotrel » Fri Apr 14, 2017 3:59 pm

The difference between a two valve and a four valve Jawa speedway engine is usually about 10% in horsepower. However there are good and better two valve Jawa engines. A good two valve is almost as fast as a four valve. With a Manx the fail is usually in the bottom end - the motor is pretty much just inside the limit of reliability, but a bit more so than with many other motors. To win a race, you have to finish. A four valve Manx might stand up fairly well, however I think you would still pay a price for the slight improvement in performance. Obviously, if you are worried about dropping valves, it is a matter of what comes first - a bottom end fail or the dropped valve. Revs kill long stroke motors.
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