Joined: 15 Apr 2004 Posts: 898 Location: Boulder, CO
Posted: Tue Sep 21, 2004 9:38 am Post subject: STILL won't start!
I still have the same cold starting problem - bike fires right up but immediately dies. On the rare occasions when I do manage to get it running it runs very well and it starts first kick when warm. It will usually restart the next morning but if it sits for a few days or longer it usually will not start.
I've been all through the carbs and I'm satisfied they're in good working order. It doesn't foul plugs any more, it just won't keep running.
I've cleaned up all the electrical connections, fixed a broken fuseholder wire, and fitted new plugs (AP64), new points, new condensers, and new points leads. None of that helped the hard starting problem although the AP64s seem to perform better when I do get the bike to run.
So what can it be? Two things I could try replacing are the spark plug wires (cheap) and coils (not so cheap but still cheaper than shop labor). Would that be worth doing? Another thing I could try is running a wire directly from the battery to the coils. Haven't tried that yet. Otherwise I don't know, I'm out of ideas. I could take it to the shop in Denver and let them have a go at it but I'm afraid that could be quite expensive. I'm not sure I'm willing to put much more money into this bike.
Posted: Tue Sep 21, 2004 10:32 am Post subject: ...Won't start
I had the same problem some time ago and I changed sparkplugs wires and connectors... and it solved the prob! ( Check the battery output too!)
Philippe
Joined: 14 Jan 2004 Posts: 446 Location: Yorba Linda, CA
Posted: Tue Sep 21, 2004 11:16 am Post subject:
Hi Debby,
Your frustrations are felt by alot of us out here. What you are experiencing is why alot of Nortons are pushed to the back of the garage and left for awhile, (mine sat for a year once, dribbling all over everything.)
There are people with alot more credentials and experience than I, but I will share what I have learned the past couple years.
I live at sea level in a mild climate. I have run 850's for years with no choke. Tickle ONLY when cold, let her rip.
I am currently sorting out a low mileage Combat that needs tickle and FULL choke to start, or it dies like yours. It needs the choke for awhile, then it is fine. What I believe is happening is the tickle gives a temporary rich mixture, burns off then dies.
Why this does not affect my 850, I don't know. Some people would say my 850 is too rich, maybe, however you cannot change the pilot jet on a 932 and the above Combat is running 932's. So go figure.
I think your problem is fuel starvation, carb related. It is probably time to consider reattaching your choke, or other options.
Hard starting after a few days, I would first check the battery condition. Back in the 70's when riding a new Norton, I learned very quick to sound my horn before starting. If it was week, I knew it would be a hard start.
Also, the alternator does not produce enough juice at idle to run the bike. There is a draw on the battery. If the battery is week, it will not run well below 1800 - 2000 rpm.
One more thing, points condition is critical to an easy start. When I was running points, I would clean them once a week with a points file. I would carry this file in the tool bag for roadside cleanings if necessary. I also carried an extra set of points.
The Joe Lucas electrics gave me far more problems than the AMAL's ever did. I think you have a combination of both, which can make things pretty miserable.
Does your bike smoke after start up, then burn off. Wet sumping can also
contribute to hard starting.
Don't despair, we are here to help. I hope this does.
Joined: 14 Jan 2004 Posts: 446 Location: Yorba Linda, CA
Posted: Tue Sep 21, 2004 12:23 pm Post subject:
I have been thinking of this choke / no choke I have experienced with 850's and 750's. The choke was not necessary on my original 73 850, I removed the chokes on my 75 850 and yet this 750 Combat needs full choke. All with 32mm 932 carbs. What's up.
Is it the displacement, cam timing, I don't think so. I think it is compression. There is a different atmospheric condition in the higher compression 750's than the low compression 850. Thus, 750's may need a choke were as 850's are optional.
Given that my results are at the same elevation, sea level, it is the only thing I can conclude thus far.
I would be interested in knowing other peoples experience with choke / no choke.
Joined: 15 Apr 2004 Posts: 898 Location: Boulder, CO
Posted: Tue Sep 21, 2004 1:03 pm Post subject:
On my old 850 I had to use ticklers and choke on cold mornings. In warmer weather it was ok with just the ticklers. That was in southern CA but it did get down to near freezing at times. I remember one time I was riding to school and I encountered a large patch of black ice on the road. THAT was exciting! You don't expect that sort of thing in balmy southern california.
On my 750 the PO removed the chokes and discarded them. I think one of the reasons he sold the bike was he couldn't get it to start (that was in Michigan). And I've had poor results with just the ticklers here in Colorado. I do have a complete choke assy that came with a box-o-parts I bought recently. Sounds like it's time to install them and see what happens. No additional cost to try that out
Joined: 14 Jun 2003 Posts: 667 Location: HOUSTON, TEXAS
Posted: Thu Sep 23, 2004 3:28 pm Post subject:
Debby,
Try this: once the engine starts, keep it running by depressing the ticklers. If jabbing the ticklers keeps the engine running when it starts to falter, then you have a fuel delivery problem.
There's nothing wrong with your coils; generally, they either work or they don't.
Joined: 15 Apr 2004 Posts: 898 Location: Boulder, CO
Posted: Thu Sep 23, 2004 6:37 pm Post subject:
I used to have a Honda. It was a nice enough bike. A bit lacking in character perhaps. I traded it in on my Ducati five years ago. I had the Duck out last weekend. Got it all washed and waxed and went for a nice sporting ride in the foothills. Wow. That bike's a keeper!
Joined: 15 Apr 2004 Posts: 898 Location: Boulder, CO
Posted: Sat Sep 25, 2004 4:16 pm Post subject:
That sounds exactly like my situation. Except the gas has only been in the tank for a couple of weeks. But I wonder, maybe our evil petrol is attacking the lining in the tank and dissolving it resulting in contaminated gas???
I suppose I should also drain the oil out of the sump. It does have a very bad wetsumping problem.
I also bought new plug wires today. The old ones said "LUCAS SUPPRESSION" and could have been decades old. It's got the Champion spark plug caps too.
Unfortunately it's going to be a while before I can try starting it. Last weekend the bike injured my leg while trying to start it. My foot slipped off, the rubber went flying across the driveway, and the bike kicked back nailing my leg hard right above the ankle. It's still way too sore and swollen to even think about kickstarting. Maybe in a couple of weeks. Sigh...
Joined: 15 Apr 2004 Posts: 898 Location: Boulder, CO
Posted: Thu Sep 30, 2004 9:58 am Post subject:
Well, still can't try to start it. I think I'll have to go in to the clinic and have my leg xrayed. It's not getting any better. But yes, perhaps I can start it with my left leg standing alongside the bike!
I suspect I have some bad gas. Am planning to drain the old stuff and get some fresh. I also bought new plug wires so I'll fit those for the next starting attempt. Maybe that will help. Or maybe I should offer some sort of sacrifice to the Prince of Darkness (Joe Lucas). But what would appease him???
Joined: 24 Dec 2003 Posts: 362 Location: Brisbane, Australia
Posted: Thu Sep 30, 2004 10:18 am Post subject:
Debby,
As Jason noted ealier, are you certain your timing is correct ?
I may be about to tell you stuff you know but .......:
Have you pulled both plugs out & checked top dead centre with a straw,
you know, put the bike on centre stand change to top gear & rocked it back & forward to find tdc on the compression stroke.
Then look at the timing mark in the primary case. Does it say tdc or is it out ? I have had one out by 20 degrees...............seriously.
When your norton has the right amount of fuel, compression & spark at the right time, it doesn't require anyeffort to start it as I mentioned before.
I have had a back operation & find that starting it on the centre stand is so easy for me............
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At the end of 1967 the Norton Commando was announced.
The Norton Commando was greeted with a certain amount of scepticism because on first sight the commando appeared to comprise of the old Norton Dominator twin cylinder engine mounted at an inclined angle in a set of new cylinder parts.
It was not realized that the new Norton Commando Isolastic method of engine suspension damped out all engine vibration and produced a machine which had uncanny smoothness for a vertical twin. In due course the critics were silenced and the Norton Commando had the distinction of being regarded as the first of todays so called superbikes. There can be little doubt that the original design concept of the Norton Commando has proved correct, since comparatively few modifications of any real consequence have been made since production commenced during 1968.
Now nearly 40 years later Norton Commando riders like us are a breed of our own, and as far as we are concerned its still more fun to go for a blat on the old Norton Commando, and fast. As a Norton Commando owner and enthusiast, my goal here is to promote and give credit to those who keep the Norton name going.
It is more deserving to give credit to the Commando itself, for after all these years it continues to be respected. The original Commando designers like John Favill are those who deserve the credit for developing this incredible motorcycle.
The Norton Commando Roadster and Interstate of the late seventies, never died. Although the Norton Villiers factory dispersed the tradition lived on. Today Kenny Dreer in the USA is developing the new 952 CC Norton. What a great looking bike this is, and its engineering is still based on the original layout. It will be interesting to see how the new 952CC Norton does in todays tough motorcycle market. One thing is for sure, I would own one if I could afford it.
