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debby
Joined: 15 Apr 2004
Posts: 890
Location: Boulder, CO
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 Posted: Sun Aug 22, 2004 3:50 pm Post subject: Dead again |
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Well I'm back to square one. Last week, bike ran great. This weekend, after sitting all week, it's the same old story. Started right up, died right away. Didn't have any new plugs to put in it so I couldn't get the stupid thing running. Blah!!!
I thought the carbs were in good shape after the last rebuild and after the bike ran so well last weekend. Now I don't know what to think.
The problem seems to be that about half the time I try to cold start it fouls the plugs. Impossible to get going again without a brand new fresh set. All I had today was a used set and they didn't work either. Maybe those amals are just shot or could it be something else?? I'd buy a Mikuni kit but what if that didn't fix it either?
Debby
71 750 Roadster parts bike |
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dynodave
Joined: 28 May 2003
Posts: 139
Location: USA
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| Posted: Sun Aug 22, 2004 5:40 pm Post subject: |
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Last edited by dynodave on Mon Apr 11, 2005 5:08 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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nortonfan
Joined: 24 Dec 2003
Posts: 362
Location: Brisbane, Australia
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| Posted: Mon Aug 23, 2004 2:38 am Post subject: |
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Debby,
On Sunday 8 Aug you stated
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I found it very difficult to get access to the clogged pilot jets so I drilled out the blanking plugs behind them. Now I can see daylight thru the pilot jets and the pilot fuel circuit is clear on both carbs.
But, and this brings me to my question, I tried to push a single strand of 12 awg stranded wire thru the pilot jets as suggested on another thread and I could not get it to go on either carb.
"
Compressed air is the recomended method for cleaning out the carbys after a good soak in your preferred carb cleaner.
Are you sure pushing piano wire n whatever thru hasn't opened it up and made it too rich ?
Have you tried new needle jets also, as these could be worn ? If they are you will find that you will need to adjust your mixture screw back to say 1.25 turns out or thereabouts. |
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Jason Curtiss
Joined: 14 Jun 2003
Posts: 661
Location: HOUSTON, TEXAS
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| Posted: Mon Aug 23, 2004 3:50 am Post subject: |
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Debby,
Are choke slides fitted to your carburetors? If so, make sure they are all the way up imediately after starting the engine. Better yet, don't use the slides for starting the bike.
It sounds like the engine is being flooded, possibly due to the choke sides, so eliminate them from the equation.
Let us know what happens.
Jason |
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debby
Joined: 15 Apr 2004
Posts: 890
Location: Boulder, CO
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| Posted: Mon Aug 23, 2004 7:12 am Post subject: |
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Carb details...
Chokes aren't the problem, they aren't fitted! PO removed them and threw them away. I have a set that came with a box-o-parts I bought but have been waiting for colder weather before I install them.
Jetting is 200 mains, 105 needle jets (new), old needles in middle clip, #3 cutaway. Air screws are 2 turns out; before the soaking and poking they were 3/4 turn out. (This is at our mile-high altitude) I haven't done a hiway-speed plug chop reading yet but last weekend the color looked good when I checked them following a ride.
It does seem the first minute or so of running with the flooded engine is critical wrt fouling plugs. If I don't flood the carbs thoroughly it doesn't start. But when I do, about half the time it fouls out. I don't have any sandblasting equipment or anything like that so there's no way (that I know) to clean the plugs. I just have to throw them in the garbage and go spend another $7 for a fresh set. Maybe I can get a quantity discount if I buy a case of them. I've been using NGK BP7ES plugs. Norbsa recommends autolite, says they're more resistant to gas fouling. I suppose I should try some if I can find some place that sells them...
Debby |
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nortonfan
Joined: 24 Dec 2003
Posts: 362
Location: Brisbane, Australia
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| Posted: Mon Aug 23, 2004 7:36 am Post subject: |
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Plugs are obviously NOT the problem as someone else tried to point out earlier.
A cheap wire brush will clean the fouled plugs up.
It all seems to be based on your carby setup at idle or close to.
Did you check out this amal site that I put up elsewhere ?
http://www.hitchcocksmotorcycles.com/amal/mk1_conc_ht_5.html |
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norbsa48503
Joined: 07 Apr 2004
Posts: 995
Location: Flint, Michigan
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| Posted: Mon Aug 23, 2004 7:37 am Post subject: |
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| Debby, I get mine from an Advace Auto a chain store up here. Don't feel bad BSA's do this too. Triumphs seem to be the only ones that can run these through the starting phase. It was such a big problem that Bosch made special plugs for the German race cars that cost like 78.00 each. Now if I could just get Auto Lite to nickel tripple plate thier AP 64's.norbsa |
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dynodave
Joined: 28 May 2003
Posts: 139
Location: USA
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| Posted: Mon Aug 23, 2004 8:26 am Post subject: |
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Last edited by dynodave on Mon Apr 11, 2005 5:09 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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norbsa48503
Joined: 07 Apr 2004
Posts: 995
Location: Flint, Michigan
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| Posted: Mon Aug 23, 2004 10:51 am Post subject: |
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Debby, Dave is hot on the trail here follow his advice hours on the dyno have taught him lots. I have the feeling that you have what many here have bad fuel control at certain spots in the carbs. The hot plugs are for getting rid of the fustration and finding the problem. I have often thought that on an old set of Amals, were the slides and needle holes are sloppy, that the needle must be very out of concentric with it's jet as it is pulled out of it's jet. Having this needle off set in the hole can't be good for atomization of the fuel. It's large dropletts of gas that are taking out your plugs and this could happen to someone with all the good parts in the carbs. This is the reason I keep going back to how the floats are set, it's the number one reason that gets Commandos with tilted carbs get into this kind of problem. But if your trying to run sloppy slides with wopped out needle control this also could be at the base of your problem. norbsa
Last edited by norbsa48503 on Mon Aug 23, 2004 2:38 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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nortonfan
Joined: 24 Dec 2003
Posts: 362
Location: Brisbane, Australia
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| Posted: Mon Aug 23, 2004 1:55 pm Post subject: |
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Good Luck Debby,
Seems you have all the experts on your case now.
You must be learning heaps about amals  |
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MichaelB
Joined: 14 Jan 2004
Posts: 431
Location: Yorba Linda, CA
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| Posted: Mon Aug 23, 2004 4:35 pm Post subject: |
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I am way to frugal (cheap) to buy new plugs just because they foul. I wire brush em up, maybe scrape a little with a knife, wipe the threads, if anything comes in contact with the electrode, I brush em again, blow em out and reinstall.
Debby, what is the status of your fuel. I am working on a Combat that came from Texas that has brand new Amals. The innards of these carbs were lacquered something terrible. Both slides were stuck because of the lacquer or whatever the residue is.
I wonder if this residue is just fuel, or is it a combo of fuel and resins from the fiberglass tank. In California here, we had a problem with the additive MBTE. It has been removed now, but some guys are still going to the trouble to drain their fiberglass tanks after every run. What a pain.
I don't know about other states and fuels, any comments anyone?? |
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Dwardo
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Aug 23, 2004 5:21 pm Post subject: Still dead |
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| Debbie, I haven't been following this thread so may be redundant, but everything you say could point to bad ignition. Weak coils, bad wires, faulty points/condenser or even Boyer if you have one. A weak spark will allow plugs to foul when they would otherwise be OK, and it could be that your high altitude is aggravating the problem. |
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debby
Joined: 15 Apr 2004
Posts: 890
Location: Boulder, CO
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| Posted: Tue Aug 24, 2004 6:58 am Post subject: |
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A lot of variables aren't there? I'd hate to spend several hundred $$ on new carbs only to find I had an ignition-related problem! So I'm not sure what to do at this point. The spark looks good but maybe some new condensers would be worth a try. They're relatively cheap. Also I think I'll try some hotter plugs.
Mike, do you have a fiberglass tank that's unlined? If so I'd say the sticky goo in your carbs is probably dissolved resin from the tank. Mine did that before I had it lined. That stuff really makes a mess. If your tank hasn't been lined you'd definitely want to drain it after every ride.
Debby |
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nortonfan
Joined: 24 Dec 2003
Posts: 362
Location: Brisbane, Australia
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| Posted: Tue Aug 24, 2004 9:30 pm Post subject: |
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Debby,
Condensation did go through my head earlier after you said you left it sitting. But I discarded the idea as I thought you would notice something like that when you were "doing your float levels"......
So, it could be gunking up from another source then ??
I really couldn't believe you would have had to change slide sizes and the such as suggested as the bike no doubt ran fine with all that in it for years.
Unless of course those items were wrong ever since you got the bike.
Things like this problem can be difficult when you are not at the bike all the same.
Anyway.....what is happening ? Have you got it beat ?
Is it snortin once more ?
Regards from
Reg. |
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MichaelB
Joined: 14 Jan 2004
Posts: 431
Location: Yorba Linda, CA
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| Posted: Wed Aug 25, 2004 3:37 am Post subject: |
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| Debby, There appears to be some kind of sealer on there. I think my case was just bad, rancid fuel. Though I have owned several Commando's, this is my first fiberglass tank. I heard of others with problems, this one appears to be fine. |
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Norton Commando Forum by Corporate Pages Web hosting using phpbb
The Unapproachable Norton Commando
At the end of 1967 the Norton Commando was announced.
The Norton Commando was greeted with a certain amount of scepticism because on first sight the commando appeared to comprise of the old Norton Dominator twin cylinder engine mounted at an inclined angle in a set of new cylinder parts.
It was not realized that the new Norton Commando Isolastic method of engine suspension damped out all engine vibration and produced a machine which had uncanny smoothness for a vertical twin. In due course the critics were silenced and the Norton Commando had the distinction of being regarded as the first of todays so called superbikes. There can be little doubt that the original design concept of the Norton Commando has proved correct, since comparatively few modifications of any real consequence have been made since production commenced during 1968.
Now nearly 40 years later Norton Commando riders like us are a breed of our own, and as far as we are concerned its still more fun to go for a blat on the old Norton Commando, and fast. As a Norton Commando owner and enthusiast, my goal here is to promote and give credit to those who keep the Norton name going.
It is more deserving to give credit to the Commando itself, for after all these years it continues to be respected. The original Commando designers like John Favill are those who deserve the credit for developing this incredible motorcycle.
The Norton Commando Roadster and Interstate of the late seventies, never died. Although the Norton Villiers factory dispersed the tradition lived on. Today Kenny Dreer in the USA is developing the new 952 CC Norton. What a great looking bike this is, and its engineering is still based on the original layout. It will be interesting to see how the new 952CC Norton does in todays tough motorcycle market. One thing is for sure, I would own one if I could afford it.
