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thunderbay



Joined: 25 Jun 2008
Posts: 12
Location: washington dc USA

PostPosted: Wed Jun 25, 2008 3:48 pm    Post subject: bike purchase question Reply with quote

I am new to the site. My brother is over looking at a 850 commando whos owner recetly passed a way. His wife does not know alot but says it perfect and wants 7-8k dollars. He bought it in Germany?? and had it shipped to the USA 3 years ago. Where are the serial numbers? How do i calculate the year of the bike? What should I look for?? I Where can i go to see and read the specs for this bike? appriciate anything you can help me with.
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L.A.B.
Moderator


Joined: 20 Nov 2004
Posts: 1848
Location: Norfolk, UK

PostPosted: Wed Jun 25, 2008 4:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The numbers should be found on the headstock plate, engine L/H crankcase below the barrels and also on the top of the gearbox casing. The three numbers would have matched originally.

850 MkI model production started at frame/engine/gearbox number 300000 in early 1973.

MkIA (late '73) from number 306591

1974 MkII and IIA from 307311

1975 MkIII electric start from 325001

Any Mk I, IA, II, IIA or MkIII model could have been built as either a "Roadster", "Interstate" or "Hi-Rider" bodywork styled version?

"A" models and the MKIII would have had a black plastic airbox and "bean can/black cap" mufflers/silencers.

Police/military "Interpol" 850 models were also built but it is unlikely to be an Interpol model?

A few '74 models were also built as "John Player" models but they are rare:

Model identification info: http://www.nortonmotors.de/ANIL/Commando.htm

http://www.nortonownersclub.org/models/commando/commando_detail.html
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Ron L



Joined: 27 Feb 2004
Posts: 1101
Location: Ohio

PostPosted: Fri Jun 27, 2008 7:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

As Les says, the "A" models had "bean can" mufflers and big plastic air box, but most models I have seen in the 'States have had these removed. If so, look at the left side cover, it will attach with a plastic quarter turn button if it is an "A" model. Of course this could have been changed also, or might be missing Shocked

Realize that if this was imported from Germany, the speedo will be in KPH rather than MPH.

Also the build date should be on the red ID plate on the headstock. This is not necessarily the model year. i.e., many '74 models were actually built in November or December of 1973.
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L.A.B.
Moderator


Joined: 20 Nov 2004
Posts: 1848
Location: Norfolk, UK

PostPosted: Fri Jun 27, 2008 9:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ron L wrote:
red ID plate on the headstock.


A small detail, but it would seem that some of the German models could have had Black ID plates?



Quote: "064916 PLATE - CERTIFICATION - 850CC PRE MK3 - GERMAN EXPORT MODELS": http://www.norvilmotorcycle.co.uk/064916.htm
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thunderbay



Joined: 25 Jun 2008
Posts: 12
Location: washington dc USA

PostPosted: Fri Jun 27, 2008 12:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hey thanks for the reply, Here is what i think i know about this bike for sale.

it came from england to the usa 3-5 years ago.
last ridden 6 months ago
has a wiring electrical issue
head light ring is held on with tape
metal gas tank
has extra seat
really clean, chrome in real good shape,
he paid 10k she wants 7k,

1973Norton 850 mk2
seems to be a roadster
black
engine 202770
frame FAH RGEST NR 230943

Any help on translating this info is greatly appricated. Wwe are anxious to make an offer but want to know what we are getting

What else can i look for?
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L.A.B.
Moderator


Joined: 20 Nov 2004
Posts: 1848
Location: Norfolk, UK

PostPosted: Fri Jun 27, 2008 12:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

thunderbay wrote:
1973Norton 850 mk2
seems to be a roadster
black
engine 202770
frame FAH RGEST NR 230943


Neither of those numbers would appear to be correct for an 850 model?

The engine number "202270" would be from the 1972 750 series, and the "230943" plate number would also be a 750 number, as all 850 models start with a 3***** number?

However, the last recorded 750 to be manufactured was number 230935.
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L.A.B.
Moderator


Joined: 20 Nov 2004
Posts: 1848
Location: Norfolk, UK

PostPosted: Fri Jun 27, 2008 12:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

thunderbay wrote:
has extra seat



Could we have a little more information? Do you mean it has a single seat with another passenger seat added on?

Do you have any photos of this bike you could show us? As being able to see some photos could answer a few questions.
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thunderbay



Joined: 25 Jun 2008
Posts: 12
Location: washington dc USA

PostPosted: Fri Jun 27, 2008 1:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I do not know what to think.
Here is what is on the plate
NORTON gb 850 MK2
zul.ges.gov 390 KG
fahrgest nr
230913 or it could be 230943

THe motor has 202770.

The plate looks original to the frame. Could the plate be a misprint?

Besides serial numbers, can a 750 motor fit an 850 frame?
What can i look for to tell the difference between a 750 and an 850 motor and frame?
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thunderbay



Joined: 25 Jun 2008
Posts: 12
Location: washington dc USA

PostPosted: Fri Jun 27, 2008 1:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have 3 picutres and am going over to take better more specfic one. It is 5 pm my time in washington dc USA. What time is it where you are? How do i post or forward pictures. The help is appriciated
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L.A.B.
Moderator


Joined: 20 Nov 2004
Posts: 1848
Location: Norfolk, UK

PostPosted: Fri Jun 27, 2008 1:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Unless the German Commandos had a different numbering system, then I can't explain it?

The easiest way to check the difference between standard 750 and 850 models is to look at the barrel base?

A 750 should have nine barrel base studs and nuts holding the barrels on, the 850s only have five studs/nuts visible (3 front & 2 rear), as the two outer barrel fasteners on each side of the 850 barrels are through-bolts that are not visible.

Look under " Sticky: Useful Commando & Photo Posting Information" on the index [Edit] >topics page for photo posting info:

It is now 10:15 PM UK time.


Last edited by L.A.B. on Fri Jun 27, 2008 1:28 pm; edited 2 times in total
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L.A.B.
Moderator


Joined: 20 Nov 2004
Posts: 1848
Location: Norfolk, UK

PostPosted: Fri Jun 27, 2008 1:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The different 750/850 barrel types are shown in the link: http://www.nortonmotors.de/ANIL/Norton%20Website/norton/parts-list.php?Model=n850_1&Plate=002
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thunderbay



Joined: 25 Jun 2008
Posts: 12
Location: washington dc USA

PostPosted: Fri Jun 27, 2008 5:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for the cylinder pictures. It is a 750 motor, single carb. I confirmed the frame plate does say 850 MII and the serial number is 230943. It is held on with 4 straight slotted screws. Was that the original way of fastening them on? The numbers on the engine do not match. Is there a data base of current Norton bikes' serial numbers. I will try to post pictures some time tomorrow.
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dave M



Joined: 19 Oct 2005
Posts: 309
Location: Hong Kong

PostPosted: Fri Jun 27, 2008 5:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Despite the vendor describing it as perfect, The headlight is held on with tape and there are electrical issues! My observation is that this price is higher than what lots of running Commandos go for, especially as there appears to be some discrepancy with the frame and engine numbers. You should also look at the number stamped on the top mounting-lug of the gearbox, which should also match the engine and frame number, this could confirm whether the bike is an assembly of unrelated bits - this in itself doesn't necessarily mean the bike is a bad one, but I would expect a machine with non-matching numbers to command a lower price than an original one. Post some photos if you can and the eagle-eyed enthusiasts on this site will point out any obvious discrepancies.
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VA Rebel



Joined: 17 Jul 2005
Posts: 28

PostPosted: Fri Jun 27, 2008 8:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You should be able to find a sorted, numbers matching, Norton in the DC metro area for 7K. Go to the Nations Capital Norton Owners site for some local contact info. Well organised chapter w/ many long time members.
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BrianK



Joined: 14 Jun 2007
Posts: 376
Location: Boston, MA USA

PostPosted: Fri Jun 27, 2008 8:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Check eBay for a price check. Not reliable, but another data point.

I bought my 73 850 off eBay. call it $5500. I have well over twice that invested in it now. Money well spent? Couldn't tell ya. But I just went out and looked at it (we had a brief ride earlier tonight, to check out the new main jets..see separate thread if interested). Bottom line: I'm still in love. Anything for my baby!!

30 years riding, and I've not seen any bike I crave more. Black Shadows included. (Not to say I wouldn't LOOOOVVEE one....)
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The Unapproachable Norton Commando

At the end of 1967 the Norton Commando was announced.

The Norton Commando was greeted with a certain amount of scepticism because on first sight the commando appeared to comprise of the old Norton Dominator twin cylinder engine mounted at an inclined angle in a set of new cylinder parts.

It was not realized that the new Norton Commando Isolastic method of engine suspension damped out all engine vibration and produced a machine which had uncanny smoothness for a vertical twin. In due course the critics were silenced and the Norton Commando had the distinction of being regarded as the first of todays so called superbikes. There can be little doubt that the original design concept of the Norton Commando has proved correct, since comparatively few modifications of any real consequence have been made since production commenced during 1968.

Now nearly 40 years later Norton Commando riders like us are a breed of our own, and as far as we are concerned its still more fun to go for a blat on the old Norton Commando, and fast. As a Norton Commando owner and enthusiast, my goal here is to promote and give credit to those who keep the Norton name going.

It is more deserving to give credit to the Commando itself, for after all these years it continues to be respected. The original Commando designers like John Favill are those who deserve the credit for developing this incredible motorcycle.

The Norton Commando Roadster and Interstate of the late seventies, never died. Although the Norton Villiers factory dispersed the tradition lived on. Today Kenny Dreer in the USA is developing the new 952 CC Norton. What a great looking bike this is, and its engineering is still based on the original layout. It will be interesting to see how the new 952CC Norton does in todays tough motorcycle market. One thing is for sure, I would own one if I could afford it.