Joined: 03 Sep 2007 Posts: 117 Location: Tulsa, Oklahoma, USA
Posted: Sun May 25, 2008 1:46 pm Post subject:
L.A.B. wrote:
Tulsaalva wrote:
Have I guessed the location correctly?
Yes.
Tulsaalva wrote:
If so, must I order replacements for the rear brake pads?
No!
As the springs are an 'anti-pad-rattle' modification, commonly robbed from a couple of ball-point pens!
I have a box of advertising ball-point pens in the attic from a business we closed over ten years ago. The result is that I have four springs exactly alike. The one's my friend used looked home-made out of another spring. The installation looks "original factory," and doesn't even come close to the edge of the disc!
Joined: 20 Nov 2004 Posts: 1699 Location: Norfolk UK
Posted: Mon May 26, 2008 1:48 am Post subject:
I've not actually found the spring 'modification' to be all that effective myself, maybe the springs I used weren't strong enough?
The reason for the modification is that some brake pads are quite a loose fit in the caliper slots, so have a tendency to chatter (clicking noise) at low speeds. The original Lockheed pads fitted to my T140V Bonneville do not seem to rattle at all, unlike the aftermarket pads that came fitted to my twin disc modified T160 Trident when I bought it! I did the spring modification to that, but it wasn't a complete success.
I've measured three different makes of pads and the overall length does vary. I found the EBC HH pads to be the best fit, closely followed by the old Lockheeds.
Here's something I wrote about that in a reply on the TriplesOnline website forum some while ago:
_________________________________
....The metal pad backing plate of the EBC HH being the longest of them all @ 59.57mm, Lockheed @ 59.5mm, unknown @ 58.9mm, the HH fits into the caliper slots quite snugly, and I've never noticed a rattle with these pads, unlike the unknown brand ones that certainly did!...
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Joined: 20 Nov 2004 Posts: 1699 Location: Norfolk UK
Posted: Mon May 26, 2008 5:51 am Post subject: Re: Wheel Alignment
Tulsaalva wrote:
I found out the job is best done with two lasers, one in front of the bike and one behind.
I aligned the front laser with the center groove of the front of both tires and the rear laser with the center groove of the rear of both tires. Unfortunately, the beams crossed.
I decided I should do a "rough" alignment first, so I adjusted the pull bolts until I had exactly the same distance between the adjusters and the backs of the rear swinging arm, and three-quarters of an inch of chain play.
I set up the lasers again in the same way as above. When all was done, the front laser was centered in the center grooves of the front of both tires, the rear laser was centered the same on the rear of the tires. To my pleasure, the beams both hit the lenses of their opposites.
The actual adjustment was done by measuring the distance between the adjusters and the rear of the swinging arm, not with the lasers. Although the lasers did confirm the alignment, I have to admit that I spent at least an hour and a half doing a job that should have taken fifteen minutes. :)
Ah, what the hell? It was fun and that's what fixing these old bikes up is all about, nicht wahr?
Al
That's an interesting alternative way to do it Al.
But I think I will be sticking with my 65 pence builders line method...for the time being, anyway.
Joined: 03 Sep 2007 Posts: 117 Location: Tulsa, Oklahoma, USA
Posted: Mon May 26, 2008 10:53 pm Post subject:
I'm afraid it's my fault, Grandpaul. I've just used this thread to ask questions as I progress in bringing the bike back to life. Perhaps it'd be a good idea to rename the thread. How about, "Bringing a '79 Bonneville Special Back to Life." How does one rename a thread?
Joined: 03 Sep 2007 Posts: 117 Location: Tulsa, Oklahoma, USA
Posted: Tue May 27, 2008 8:16 am Post subject: Renaming threads
You're right, Grandpaul. I'm a moderator on another discussion board. One of my duties as such is to rename threads that need it. So often folks will name a thread, "Hey, there!" or something similar. I have to read the posts and change the name to something more appropriate.
Joined: 03 Sep 2007 Posts: 117 Location: Tulsa, Oklahoma, USA
Posted: Tue May 27, 2008 8:32 am Post subject: Setting the Front Master Cylinder
I've gone back and readjusted the master cylinder in accordance with L.A.B.'s suggestion.
When backing off the cylinder, air first starts to flow when the groove that accepts the grub bolt is 180 degrees off. The instructions say to continue to back the cylinder off a complete turn but to line up the groove with the grub bolt. Therefore I have a choice of backing the cylinder off one-half turn or one and a half turns in order to screw in the grub bolt.
Since air seems to flow freely at one-half turn after air first begins to flow, that's the way I've set it so far. If the additional turn is necessary, I can easily make the change.
Joined: 20 Nov 2004 Posts: 1699 Location: Norfolk UK
Posted: Tue May 27, 2008 10:33 am Post subject:
Tulsaalva wrote:
How does one rename a thread?
(Log in) Select the thread, then click the "Edit" button of the first (your) message, if the original subject title shows in the "Subject" box above the message, then you should be able to edit it? Others have done so to correct typo's etc. (or I could do so, if you'd like to say what you'd like to rename it?)
Joined: 20 Nov 2004 Posts: 1699 Location: Norfolk UK
Posted: Tue May 27, 2008 11:03 am Post subject: Re: Setting the Front Master Cylinder
Tulsaalva wrote:
Since air seems to flow freely at one-half turn after air first begins to flow, that's the way I've set it so far. If the additional turn is necessary, I can easily make the change.?
I think you will be OK.
The revised instructions say this:
_____________________________________
"1. Draw a pencil line on the underside of the cylinder in line with the centre of the flat machined on the body. Later cylinders will have a slot machined in the centre of the flat.
2. Making sure that the pushrod enters the hole in the boot, screw the cylinder into the bracket moving the lever slightly so as to feel when all the last movement is eliminated. Do this very carefully so that all movement is just removed.
3. With all movement eliminated, note the position of the reservoir in relation to the tapped boss [a diagram included within instructions identifies that as being the mirror mounting boss] on the bracket. From this position screw the cylinder in one complete turn so that the reservoir finishes up in the same previously noted position.
4. Continue screwing in the cylinder the part of a turn necessary to bring the reservoir vertical so as to line up the tapped boss. Do NOT unscrew the cylinder to line up-always screw IN the part turn necessary even if it is almost a complete turn of 360 degrees.
5. Make a further slight turn inwards to align the hole for the set [grub] screw with the centre of the flat, or slot, denoted by the pencil line. Fit the screw (ideally apply Loctite CV) and torque up 2.26 Nm-20 lb. ins., making sure that on cylinders with a slot machined in the body that the screw locates properly into the slot."
Joined: 03 Sep 2007 Posts: 117 Location: Tulsa, Oklahoma, USA
Posted: Wed May 28, 2008 5:10 pm Post subject: Bonneville Front Disc Brake
The Bonny has a front brake. It is strong and it is smooth! Yeeeehhhhaaaaa!
I had to go back to Tulsa Brake and Clutch to get another banjo bolt and six copper washers. Unfortunately, the shortest banjo bolt they had was too long for the Triumph. The fellow at TB&C asked if I knew a machinist.
"Yes, I do," I told him. "My neighbor across the street has built a wonderful machine shop in his back yard with several computerized lathes, milling machines, and tools I don't even understand."
"He runs a business from his back yard?" asked Mr. TB&C.
"Oh, no! His shop is just for his hobby."
"What's his hobby?"
"He makes cannon."
"I'm sorry, I though you said,'he makes cannon.'"
"Yes, big ones, little ones... Do you need a cannon?" (Oklahoma does have a "concealed carry" law, y'know?)
"Nope! But I guess he can shave the end off a banjo bolt."
Indeed he could... and did. He did a beautiful job.
However, it turned out that the back brake also needs a shorter banjo bolt on the caliper so I don't have a rear brake yet. Worse, I destroyed the one banjo bolt that was too long. So tomorrow I have to go back to TB&C for another.
I printed your new method for setting the master cylinder, L.A.B., and make it a permanent part of my factory manual. I didn't change what I'd done previously, though, but it will be there for next time. Thank you!
Al
Last edited by Tulsaalva on Wed May 28, 2008 5:21 pm; edited 2 times in total
Joined: 03 Sep 2007 Posts: 117 Location: Tulsa, Oklahoma, USA
Posted: Wed May 28, 2008 5:15 pm Post subject: Discussion name change
L.A.B. wrote:
Tulsaalva wrote:
How does one rename a thread?
(Log in) Select the thread, then click the "Edit" button of the first (your) message, if the original subject title shows in the "Subject" box above the message, then you should be able to edit it? Others have done so to correct typo's etc. (or I could do so, if you'd like to say what you'd like to rename it?)
Well, that was easy! The other discussion board only allows editing for a short period of time after posts. Moderators can edit within their forums of responsibility, but not otherwise.
Joined: 03 Sep 2007 Posts: 117 Location: Tulsa, Oklahoma, USA
Posted: Sat May 31, 2008 11:27 am Post subject: Rear brake rebuild
Thanks for the group hug, Grandpaul. I'm real proud of the front brake, considering this is the first time I've worked on it on a Bonneville.
The rear brake, however, is proving somewhat more challenging.
On page F-12 of the factory manual, in the first paragraph, the following is written:
"The rear brake master cylinder is a sealed unit and is only serviced as such. The principle of operation is identical to that of the front master cylinder with the exception that the reservoir is mounted remotely beneath the twinseat."
So, does that mean that I cannot rebuild the rear master cylinder, and must replace the entire unit for $220.00? I have a master cylinder rebuild kit that I bought from Jack's Motorcycles here in Tulsa. LaNelle, the owner for the past forty years or so, is quite good at ordering parts but has never worked on bikes. (She is the city's best wheel truer.) She no longer has a mechanic employed. He died several years ago. LaNelle thought that the two master cylinders use the same rebuild kit but has double-checked and has found no listing for a rebuilt kit specifically for the rear master cylinder. She can order a new rear master cylinder but does not have it in the store. "Too expensive to keep in stock," she said.
The factory manual has no information on the rebuilding of the rear master cylinder.
So I decided to use the old rear master cylinder. The old one seemed to be pumping. I replaced everything else except the remote reservoir and the master cylinder itself. The cannon guy across the street machined two more banjo bolts to fit after I ground a hole in my right thumb nail trying to save time. It was a neat installation with no leaks.
So I went about the bleeding job and have not been able to build hydraulic pressure in the system. There is enough pressure to slightly move the pads when pumping the brake, but never enough to create even a small amount of drag on the brake disc. When bleeding, the air bubbles come out one or two at a time, never a good solid spurt. A bad omen is that the small amount of fluid that does come out is an ugly brown color, probably rust from the old master cylinder I used. Bad choice.
Joined: 20 Nov 2004 Posts: 1699 Location: Norfolk UK
Posted: Sat May 31, 2008 12:25 pm Post subject: Re: Rear brake rebuild
Tulsaalva wrote:
"The rear brake master cylinder is a sealed unit and is only serviced as such.
And one of the great Triumph mysteries of all time: "The non-rebuildable master cylinder that never was!" Or was it?
The rear master cylinder *supposedly* became a sealed unit from Sept. 1977-onwards, "due to a change in manufacturing procedure" -according to Lockheed's Service Sheet? However, I've never heard of any Triumph owner finding they have this non-rebuildable rear master cylinder? Has anybody else heard of, or seen one?
If the factory did fit them from late '77-on, then my own low mileage June '78 manufactured T140V ought to have one, and it doesn't?
So as far as I am concerned, if you are able to dismantle your rear unit then it can be rebuilt using the standard seal kit.
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